A few rules I have questions on. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Slit518 Mar 01, 2015 11:36:40	A round of combat is an Action, a Movement, a possible Bonus Action and a possible Reaction. I have a question with a few things and perhaps some of you can answer them for me. 1) Dash - "When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. This increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash. Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash." From this text it doesn't say anything about a Dash consuming your movement and your action. So in theory, could I just Dash, Attack and Bonus Action? 2) Disengage - "If you take the Disengage action, your movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks for the rest of the turn." It doesn't say how far a distance one Disengages, is it normal movement, double movement, etc...? Can I Attack and Bonus Action then Disengage? What are the restrictions? 3) Dodge - "When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated (as explained in appendix A) or if your speed drops to 0." From the looks of it, it seems I devote my whole turn to Dodging, forgoing any Action and possible Bonus Action and Reactions. Is this true? If not, why not just Dodge all the time? 4) Two-Weapon Fighting - If you have a light weapon in each hand, it allows a bonus attack with the off-hand weapon. Is this true of each attack granted by your class? So for example if I am a Fighter of level 5 and I have 2 attacks, do I also get 2 Bonus Attacks as well? 5) Social Encounters with PCs and NPCs - how do you handle certain Social Interactions, for example when it's Player vs Player and one of the Players decides to Intimidate another Player or Persuade another Player. For Deception I feel Insight is a proper check against it, for Intimidation I feel a Wisdom Save and for Persuasion I feel a Wisdom Save as well. What saves do you use? How do you handle Social Encounters when it's Player vs Player or Player vs NPC? Thanks in advance!
#2 alienux Mar 01, 2015 11:52:35	For the first 3, those ARE actions. You get one action, one move, a reaction, and a possible bonus action on your turn. So you could use one of those for your action instead of taking the attack action. So, if you take the Dash action, you've used your action to move up to your speed. You can still use your movement up to your speed since you didn't use your movement for the Dash action. Since Disengage is an action, once you use it, you still have movement, a reaction, and a possible reaction. The Dodge action means any attacks against you have disadvantage during that round. You still have a reaction, movement, and a possible reaction.
#3 Slit518 Mar 01, 2015 11:55:00	alienux wrote:
#4 jaelis Mar 01, 2015 11:57:05	Slit518 wrote:
#5 WelbyWizard Mar 01, 2015 12:01:26	Slit518 wrote:
#6 jaelis Mar 01, 2015 12:00:55	So, if you take the Dash action, you've used your action to move up to your speed. You can still use your movement up to your speed since you didn't use your movement for the Dash action. Alright, so I move my 30 feet for example, if I choose dash I move another 30 feet or 60 feet? Because Dash says I move double my normal distance.
#7 jaelis Mar 01, 2015 12:02:55	Slit518 wrote:
#8 Llenlleawg Mar 01, 2015 12:05:57	As you note, you have the following options: Action + Movement (+ bonus action) (+reaction). As @alienux points out, the first three are actions. If you do them, you can't take another action. You can still move. You can only take a bonus action if the conditions are met (e.g. if you can have a bonus attack if you have attacked, but you have used your action to do something other than attack, then you can't make a bonus attack). Likewise, you can take a reaction if you meet the conditions and haven't taken one already. So...since 1-3 are actions, you cannot also attack if you take them, but you might still be able to have a bonus action and/or reaction. re: #4, you can only take one bonus action per turn, so no, you don't get an extra attack on the bonus attack. re: #5, with PC to PC social interaction, you don't make any rolls. The player always gets to decide how his PC reacts to anything, unless compelled by magic, etc.
#9 Slit518 Mar 01, 2015 12:36:48	Thanks for the replies, everyone!
#10 Oraibi Mar 22, 2015 22:26:37	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #10) Bloodscythe	Oraibi wrote:
(Reply to #11) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #12) Bloodscythe	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #13) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #14) Bloodscythe	OoftaMeg wrote:
#16 jaelis Mar 24, 2015 14:24:35	So I guess a rogue could use Cunning Action to dash, then use Ready, and then move 60 ft when the ready triggers. Or would that not work, because you can only Ready to move up to your speed? I guess technically the latter... But he could use CA to dash, then move 30 ft, then Ready a move, then move 30 ft more when it triggers.
(Reply to #16) Bloodscythe	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #15) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #18) Bloodscythe	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #19) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #18) Macv12	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #21) OoftaMeg	Macv12 wrote:
#23 jaelis Mar 24, 2015 18:59:43	This issue is that you can ready an action (say Dash) or you can ready a move (and then move your speed). But as pointed out, actually moving is not part of the Dash action. So if you ready the Dash action, then you don't actually get to move, because you didn't ready a move. But I finally got my head around what was bugging me. There is never any reason to ready a Dash action, because if you ready a move, that movement is already extra. So you can move 30 ft, then ready an action to move another 30 ft. That is what you would be trying to accomplish by readying a dash anyway.
(Reply to #23) Bloodscythe	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #24) OoftaMeg	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #25) Bloodscythe	OoftaMeg wrote:
#27 Macv12 Mar 24, 2015 20:12:30	@OoftaMeg, that would be like being stranded at a gas station that only takes cash, and the ATM is closed. I can phone my parents and ask them to transfer 30 "extra" dollars to my bank account, but there wouldn't be much point, since I can't access it without an ATM. As it is with movement: no matter how much you have in the bank, you can only make withdrawals during business hours, meaning "your turn." So Dash, strictly speaking, wouldn't help. Fortunately, I know a special code that I can put in the ATM, which lets me make an emergency withdrawal during closing hours once per day. I just have to put it in during business hours earlier that same day. As in, take the Ready Action on my turn, and choose the "move my speed" option. Of course, this is all just academic until someone can figure out a way to use Dash for more than just movement. It doesn't get you anything, AFAIK, that you don't get with the neutral move option. I suppose you could argue for triggering the bonus action from Charger off-turn, but I don't think you can use bonus actions outside your turn, either. Don't really care to look it up now.
#28 OoftaMeg Mar 25, 2015 6:27:56	We all agree that you can ready to move, right? Which means the whole "you can't move when it's not your turn" is overriden by readying. The issue becomes the definition of speed. Speed Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. Which means that once you've moved your 30 ft speed on your turn, you have 0 movement left. At that point if you want to continue moving you have to take the dash action. The rules do not say that the dash action has to be on your turn. Dash gives you additional movement during a turn and adds to your total movement for the round. If the turn your action goes on gives you 0 movement, you still gain an additional 30 ft of movement. In other words, 0+30 is still 30.
(Reply to #28) Macv12	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #29) OoftaMeg	Macv12 wrote:
#31 jaelis Mar 25, 2015 12:33:50	Because the Cast a Spell action actually has you cast a spell as part of that action. In my reading, the Dash action doesn't actually have you move as part of that action. But I guess you read it differently, and anyway the difference is purely academic.
#32 arnwolf666 Mar 26, 2015 0:49:19	Ug, this is too confusing for me. I must abandon this thread, too much legal use of language and terminology for me. Must retreat to grognardia.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Slit518

Mar 01, 2015 11:36:40

A round of combat is an Action, a Movement, a possible Bonus Action and a possible Reaction.

I have a question with a few things and perhaps some of you can answer them for me.

1) Dash - "When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. This increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.

Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash."

From this text it doesn't say anything about a Dash consuming your movement and your action. So in theory, could I just Dash, Attack and Bonus Action?

2) Disengage - "If you take the Disengage action, your movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks for the rest of the turn."

It doesn't say how far a distance one Disengages, is it normal movement, double movement, etc...? Can I Attack and Bonus Action then Disengage? What are the restrictions?

3) Dodge - "When you take the Dodge action, you focus entirely on avoiding attacks. Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker, and you make Dexterity saving throws with advantage. You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated (as explained in appendix A) or if your speed drops to 0."

From the looks of it, it seems I devote my whole turn to Dodging, forgoing any Action and possible Bonus Action and Reactions. Is this true? If not, why not just Dodge all the time?

4) Two-Weapon Fighting - If you have a light weapon in each hand, it allows a bonus attack with the off-hand weapon. Is this true of each attack granted by your class? So for example if I am a Fighter of level 5 and I have 2 attacks, do I also get 2 Bonus Attacks as well?

5) Social Encounters with PCs and NPCs - how do you handle certain Social Interactions, for example when it's Player vs Player and one of the Players decides to Intimidate another Player or Persuade another Player. For Deception I feel Insight is a proper check against it, for Intimidation I feel a Wisdom Save and for Persuasion I feel a Wisdom Save as well. What saves do you use? How do you handle Social Encounters when it's Player vs Player or Player vs NPC?

Thanks in advance!

alienux

Mar 01, 2015 11:52:35

For the first 3, those ARE actions. You get one action, one move, a reaction, and a possible bonus action on your turn. So you could use one of those for your action instead of taking the attack action.

So, if you take the Dash action, you've used your action to move up to your speed. You can still use your movement up to your speed since you didn't use your movement for the Dash action.

Since Disengage is an action, once you use it, you still have movement, a reaction, and a possible reaction.

The Dodge action means any attacks against you have disadvantage during that round. You still have a reaction, movement, and a possible reaction.

Slit518

Mar 01, 2015 11:55:00

alienux wrote:

jaelis

Mar 01, 2015 11:57:05

Slit518 wrote:

WelbyWizard

Mar 01, 2015 12:01:26

Slit518 wrote:

jaelis

Mar 01, 2015 12:00:55

So, if you take the Dash action, you've used your action to move up to your speed. You can still use your movement up to your speed since you didn't use your movement for the Dash action.

Alright, so I move my 30 feet for example, if I choose dash I move another 30 feet or 60 feet? Because Dash says I move double my normal distance.

jaelis

Mar 01, 2015 12:02:55

Slit518 wrote:

Llenlleawg

Mar 01, 2015 12:05:57

As you note, you have the following options: Action + Movement (+ bonus action) (+reaction). As @alienux points out, the first three are actions. If you do them, you can't take another action. You can still move. You can only take a bonus action if the conditions are met (e.g. if you can have a bonus attack if you have attacked, but you have used your action to do something other than attack, then you can't make a bonus attack). Likewise, you can take a reaction if you meet the conditions and haven't taken one already.

So...since 1-3 are actions, you cannot also attack if you take them, but you might still be able to have a bonus action and/or reaction.

re: #4, you can only take one bonus action per turn, so no, you don't get an extra attack on the bonus attack.

re: #5, with PC to PC social interaction, you don't make any rolls. The player always gets to decide how his PC reacts to anything, unless compelled by magic, etc.

Slit518

Mar 01, 2015 12:36:48

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

#10

Oraibi

Mar 22, 2015 22:26:37

jaelis wrote:

(Reply to #10)

Bloodscythe

Oraibi wrote:

(Reply to #11)

OoftaMeg

Bloodscythe wrote:

(Reply to #12)

Bloodscythe

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #13)

OoftaMeg

Bloodscythe wrote:

(Reply to #14)

Bloodscythe

OoftaMeg wrote:

#16

jaelis

Mar 24, 2015 14:24:35

So I guess a rogue could use Cunning Action to dash, then use Ready, and then move 60 ft when the ready triggers. Or would that not work, because you can only Ready to move up to your speed? I guess technically the latter...

But he could use CA to dash, then move 30 ft, then Ready a move, then move 30 ft more when it triggers.

(Reply to #16)

Bloodscythe

jaelis wrote:

(Reply to #15)

OoftaMeg

Bloodscythe wrote:

(Reply to #18)

Bloodscythe

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #19)

OoftaMeg

Bloodscythe wrote:

(Reply to #18)

Macv12

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #21)

OoftaMeg

Macv12 wrote:

#23

jaelis

Mar 24, 2015 18:59:43

This issue is that you can ready an action (say Dash) or you can ready a move (and then move your speed). But as pointed out, actually moving is not part of the Dash action. So if you ready the Dash action, then you don't actually get to move, because you didn't ready a move.

But I finally got my head around what was bugging me. There is never any reason to ready a Dash action, because if you ready a move, that movement is already extra. So you can move 30 ft, then ready an action to move another 30 ft. That is what you would be trying to accomplish by readying a dash anyway.

(Reply to #23)

Bloodscythe

jaelis wrote:

(Reply to #24)

OoftaMeg

Bloodscythe wrote:

(Reply to #25)

Bloodscythe

OoftaMeg wrote:

#27

Macv12

Mar 24, 2015 20:12:30

@OoftaMeg, that would be like being stranded at a gas station that only takes cash, and the ATM is closed. I can phone my parents and ask them to transfer 30 "extra" dollars to my bank account, but there wouldn't be much point, since I can't access it without an ATM. As it is with movement: no matter how much you have in the bank, you can only make withdrawals during business hours, meaning "your turn." So Dash, strictly speaking, wouldn't help.

Fortunately, I know a special code that I can put in the ATM, which lets me make an emergency withdrawal during closing hours once per day. I just have to put it in during business hours earlier that same day. As in, take the Ready Action on my turn, and choose the "move my speed" option.

Of course, this is all just academic until someone can figure out a way to use Dash for more than just movement. It doesn't get you anything, AFAIK, that you don't get with the neutral move option. I suppose you could argue for triggering the bonus action from Charger off-turn, but I don't think you can use bonus actions outside your turn, either. Don't really care to look it up now.

#28

OoftaMeg

Mar 25, 2015 6:27:56

We all agree that you can ready to move, right? Which means the whole "you can't move when it's not your turn" is overriden by readying.

The issue becomes the definition of speed.

Speed
Every character and monster has a speed, which is
the distance in feet that the character or monster
can walk in 1 round.

Which means that once you've moved your 30 ft speed on your turn, you have 0 movement left.

At that point if you want to continue moving you have to take the dash action.

The rules do not say that the dash action has to be on your turn. Dash gives you additional movement during a turn and adds to your total movement for the round. If the turn your action goes on gives you 0 movement, you still gain an additional 30 ft of movement. In other words, 0+30 is still 30.

(Reply to #28)

Macv12

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #29)

OoftaMeg

Macv12 wrote:

#31

jaelis

Mar 25, 2015 12:33:50

Because the Cast a Spell action actually has you cast a spell as part of that action. In my reading, the Dash action doesn't actually have you move as part of that action. But I guess you read it differently, and anyway the difference is purely academic.

#32

arnwolf666

Mar 26, 2015 0:49:19

Ug, this is too confusing for me. I must abandon this thread, too much legal use of language and terminology for me. Must retreat to grognardia.