Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dr.Fresh Jun 25, 2015 5:49:51	My group has descended from the 4th edition to now adventuring in the 5th edition. A few players in my group has stated a minor dislike of the 5th edition regarding that it feels "simplified" in some ways that made the 4th edition quite enjoyable.   I've tried google this but haven't found any good explanation to this problem we've encountered.. One of our biggest problems has been the 1 action only. In 4th edition, you had a standard action and a minor. We used this a lot when doing attacks.   For example: The Rogue wants to do jump onto a higher cliffside and make an attack with his blade" In 4th ed. this is made by using a minor action doing the skill check, and a standard action doing the actual attack.   In 5th edition, it is not stated anywhere I can see that an ability check is the same as an action. The combat section in the PHB doesn't even have a "Make an Ability check" action alongside the Dodge, Dash and Disengage actions for example. Except in the fact that doing a medicine check on a dying character is regarded as an action. Which complicates things a lot if you, in another situation, wants to do a cool Acrobatics (Dexterity) check to run on the wall and then take your Action to make an attack.   I've run with it as a DM and usually has been granting my characters the right to make a skill check, and then an attack. And sometimes even two skill checks on their turn. But sometimes, I haven't - like when a player tried to use a Strength check to free another character from a sinkhole the other night (he wanted to do it twice on his turn, but that seemed wierd).   So, long explanation for a rather short question: How does it really works with ability checks in 5th edition? Both in combat and out of combat? Can you make an Athletics (Dexterity) check and then attack? or can you actually just jump of that cliff and wait for your next turn? I know at many tables to "rule of cool" would apply with a cool attack idea, but we would like to see some more specific ruling on the subject. I want my players to know if they can do a skill check and an attack or just one of the things before they make their move.   Edit: Or is simply the need for a bonus action that makes the above example possible for players in 5th edition?   Thanks in advance!
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 25, 2015 6:06:36	Ability checks are not separate actions - they are part of other actions used to determine success or failure. Here, Cunning Action (Dash) to move,with a jump and a Dex (Acrobatics) check or an object interaction as part of it. Many things in 5e simply aren't actions, when they would have been in 4e.
#3 mellored Jun 25, 2015 6:35:12	Actions are mostly the same as it was in 4e.  Except...   You can mix the actions up more.  i.e. move a little, attack, move a little, bonus action, move a little, second attack. You get 1 free object interaction, which is basicly for drawing a weapon, but could also be opening a door or something. You can't downgrade actions.   Doing cool acrobatics (and jumping) is part of the movement, not a seperate action.  Same as it was in 4e. Talking (charisma checks) is a "free" action.  Same as it was in 4e.  And can be limited by the DM.  Same as 4e.
#4 Noctaem Jun 25, 2015 6:56:26	Tempest and mello have it right.
#5 iserith Jun 25, 2015 7:38:30	Dr.Fresh wrote:
#6 Wuzzard Jun 25, 2015 18:16:08	I want to say that the 4e PHB at least gave advice that using a skill check in combat should be considered a standard action, but after a quick scan of the rules I cannot find it.  Maybe it was a hold over from 3E?  I clearly remember playing that way.  For example, if a player wanted a PC to spot something, that would be their standard action.   - edit - From 3.5e PHB pg 65  Using a skill check might take a round, take no time, or take several rounds or even longer. Most skill uses are standard actions, move actions or full round actions.   Of course, being over a decade wiser now, I can clearly understand this as "DM decides how long this takes you to accomplish."  And it is even more clear to me now (given 5e rules and Iserith's ongoing campaign to get everyone to actually acknowledge the rules) that players don't choose to use skills, they describe their actions and DM's decide to employ skill checks to resolve uncertainty.
#7 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 25, 2015 19:28:43	Wuzzard wrote:
#8 Wuzzard Jun 26, 2015 8:58:11	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#9 Wuzzard Jun 26, 2015 12:47:30	I also think it is a very reasonable outcome of playing the actual game, that players come to know how their DM's like to resolve combat situations, and most DM's probably end up using most of the ruels as is, so its likely that anyone playing in one of these games would realize that the DM's going to have to interpret their stated action, converting it into actual combat rules terms. So they quite reasonably shift to a pattern of explaining their actions already broken down into specific rules terms so save the DM the effort.    So instead of "I smash the orc in the face with my maul and then duck behind the statue" they say "I use my standard action to smash the orc in face with my maul and use my move action to duck behind the statue." (4E)  Pretty soon this gets abbreviated to "I attack and then move behind the statue" and then shortened to "I rolled 18 and damage is 12" and then physically pick up their miniature and move it on the board to a postion behind the statue. Why leave any interpretation to chance when it is clear that I intended to move from one square, via a specific path, to another square?   So we get a game where instead of focusing on the intent of the PC's actions, the player and DM are focused on communicating the intent of the player's use of the combat rules.
#10 iserith Jun 27, 2015 6:27:30	The descriptions for individual skills in D&D 4e included suggested action costs associated with the fictional actions the skill check was meant to resolve. An Acrobatics check used to determine if a creature can walk a tightrope, for example, says it is part of the move action. Improvised skill checks can be part of whatever action the DM says.