Ammunition Errata

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Bletch

Jun 11, 2015 3:52:02

RE: The new Ammunition Errata:

Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a onehanded weapon requires a free hand.

 

Ok, so I think we knew this one was coming, and it's good that we have an official clarification.   I can see that it also makes pretty good sense - it's hard to load a crossbow, blowgun or sling if you don't have a hand free.

 

However, it effectively makes these weapons two-handed - you can't dual wield or have a shield on the other arm.   I guess you can also use the free hand to cast spells requiring somatic gestures, but with the errata to two-handed weapons, you can do that with them anyway.


Is this really the designer's intention?   And what's the point now of the Hand Crossbow having the 'Light' quality?   How can it be Light ("ideal for use when fighting with two weapons") and need a free hand to load?   

 

Could a PC armed with one-handed weapon with Ammunition still use a Shield or perhaps second weapon if they also use up their free "Use an Object" action?    

e.g.  A Rogue with a Sling and Shield acts.   Lets go of Shield (assumedly still strapped to arm); Attack action: loads and shoots Sling; Free use an Object action: grabs hold of shield again.   

 

 

#2

mellored

Jun 11, 2015 5:09:06

It takes a full action to remove a shield.  So you can't do that.

 

That said, you could still hold a torch or something in your off hand.

There's also the shoot + drop + draw option. 

 

 

As for the point of "light", i'm guessing it's mostly flavor.

#3

Bletch

Jun 11, 2015 5:38:41

Yeah, actually, could Drop (weapon); Shoot (Sling); Pick Up (Weapon).     How do you figure he could hold a torch?  Surely that means he wouldn't have that hand free?

 

What I was thinking with the Shield wasn't to fully remove it, just let go of the hand hold, so it would still be strapped to the arm, dangling.   There's nothing really to cover whether or not that would be possible in the rules, would be up to a DM to rule I guess.   Whether you'd allow a guy to use his off-hand to load a sling/crossbow/blowpipe whilst he had a shield hanging off the end of that arm - dubious I suppose.

 

I think the "light" is certainly just flavour now, but I'm guessing that the Hand Crossbow was originally intended to be used off-hand or dual wielded.

 

Cheers.

#4

jaelis

Jun 11, 2015 5:47:52

Hand crossbow never did work with TWF did it? TWF requires melee weapons.

(Reply to #4)

QwertyAzerty

jaelis wrote:
#6

jaelis

Jun 11, 2015 6:01:16

OK, but Crossbow Expert doesn't have anything to do with the 'light' property, right?

 

Of course the fact that a hand crossbow is one handed does make it work with CE, so that's a difference from an actual 2H weapon.

#7

Bletch

Jun 11, 2015 7:00:39

I think what the rule clarification does is to make the Hand Crossbow not the automatic weapon of choice it might have been for Crossbow Experts.   You can use Hand Crossbow and get an extra attack, or use say a Heavy Crossbow and get 1d10 instead of 1d6 and still have the use of your Bonus Action up your sleeve.   Oddly, it'll make the Heavy Crossbow an interesting weapon of choice for a Fighter/Rogue - once you have enough Fighter levels for extra attacks.   F5/R2 gets 2 attacks at 1d10dam with Heavy CB using the Bonus action to Hide first for Advantage.   With Hand CB, it's 3 attacks at 1d6 dam, but no Hiding.

 

Unless I'm missing something...

#8

Macv12

Jun 11, 2015 7:16:01

You use them like her: http://youtu.be/VASEGrudB7k

 

Dual Wielder helps.

 

How does she get all those guns? Leader of a mercenary company.

#9

Rya.Reisender

Jun 11, 2015 12:46:03

Edit: Actually the light property was already pointless before this change as two-weapon fighting only works with light melee weapons

#10

lawrencehoy

Jun 11, 2015 22:07:51

I envision the PHB shield as one with both a forearm strap and a palm strap/handle, since it provides a +2 to AC. A shield that is strictly held in the hand would have to be smaller to be manageable in combat situations (only providing a +1 to AC).

 

So, I would allow a character with the Crossbow Expert feat to use their shield hand (strap/handle across the palm, fingers free) to load ammunition into a light hand crossbow. EDIT: Provided they are using the standard shield, not a buckler (the hand held, +1 variety).

 

I'm in favor of the light hand crossbow being a 1d4 piercing damage weapon; with the 1d6 piercing damage version losing the light property, as well as being more difficult to load (requiring an actual free hand, to crank/draw the string).

 

Just my .

#11

JackOfAllTirades

Jun 11, 2015 23:25:53

I miss Bucklers.

 

5E really should have a small +1 AC buckler that allows the wearer to choose to use the shield arm for something else (and give up the AC bonus) for a turn without removing it.