Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 SillyMind Nov 13, 2014 8:36:31	Hi all! Have a question for you knowledgeble community. I'm not sure how to rule spells such as Cloud of Daggers that don't need attack roll or saving throw to do damage. Cloud of Daggers only says: ''A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there.'' I can see two ways of dealing with that and I'm not sure which it is:   A character can conjure the cloud in another creature's space thus the creature automatically take 4d4 damage and again at the beginning of its turn, during which chances are that it will exit the area. This approach garanties 8d4 of damage without an attack or save. A character cannot conjure the cloud in another creature space, it is primarly a crowd control spell that effectively tranforms one 5 ft square of terrain into a harmfull cloud of daggers.   For instance, wall of fire is worded differently: ''When the wall appears, each creature within its area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 5d8 fire damage, or half as much damage on a successful save.'' and ''A creature takes the same damage when it enters the wall for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there.'' This is clearly meant to be cast on a creature space, the target has a save for the appearance of the wall and after that the damage is automatic (no save) when someone enters the wall or ends its turn there.
#2 mellored Nov 13, 2014 9:00:33	You can conjuring a cloud in an enemies space.   But the enemy did not enter that space, it was alreadly there.  So you will only deal 4d4 damage at the start of it's turn.   Unless it get's pushed, uses a legendary move action, or otherwise moves before the start of it's turn.   Also, you can shove / drag / thunderwave someone into it, you would deal 4d4, and then 4d4 at the start of their turn, for 8d4 damage.  And possibly use ensaring strike, grapple, or some other immobilizing effect to keep them their for extra rounds. Of course, enemies can potentially shove you into it and immobilize you as well.  Though, you can end it at any time.   And finally, it's per turn.  So if a creature thunderwaves you though it, you would take 4d4, and if a second creature shoves you back on it's turn, you would take an additional 4d4, and a third 4d4 for staring in the cloud. Potentially tonns of damage with a hord of shoving minions.
(Reply to #2) SillyMind	mellored wrote:
#4 WizardV Nov 14, 2014 15:02:38	Here's a handy spellset for mischief and lols if you ever want a toolbox for zone damage. Druids and warlocks have a surprisingly strong showing.   Zone Damage ================ cloud of daggers evards black tenticles flaming sphere guardian of faith hunger of hadar incendiary cloud insect plague mordenkainen's faithful hound moonbeam Spike Growth *** wall of fire wall of thorns   Zone Disable ================ Stinking cloud Web   Relocation ================ grasping vine gust of wind otilukes resilient sphere telekenesis thorn whip thunderwave melee shove attack grapple + move eldritch strike + repelling strike