Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Umbacano Mar 25, 2015 18:07:51	Hi everyone   One of my players has created a Barbarian with Bear Totem.   What happened is the following: Last session, there was a trap that release smoke gas in a closed room. I determined (as a DM) that each turn the party would take 15 damage with a Constitution Saving throw of 12 for half damage. The gas was not poisonous; it just made the targets unconscious when it hit the current hit points. The players started bashing the door to get out but something strange started happening.   While the other players were taking damage (or half damage) the barbarian player entered rage and started ignoring all damage. Since the bear totem states that they take half damage when raging (except for psychic) and the player kept saving for 12 or more, the argument was that the player should take no damage. Half for the almost universal damage resistance and the rest because the player was successful in the saving throws.   Also since there was a hostile object in the room (in this case the door that blocked the exit) the rage shouldn’t trigger stop. The door could be considered hostile when people are fleeing for the lives and it blocks the way.   Although the player should be rewarded for its creativity, i was less pleased with the result, since to me looks like a rule exploit. And eventually it will lead to a sentiment on invulnerability of the player that would end in two possible ways IMO:   - The story crumbles in itself since players have found a tank that takes almost no damage (everything is halved) plus a big AC of 10+dex+const+shield. - The player get the party killed when difficulty rises (or rolls fail) and then the DM is the bad guy that throws unbalanced challenges at the party, which is correct because any monsters that can kill that tank would make short work of the rest of the party.   Yes, i know that magic users can command, confound, hold the character but to me looks illogical that every single enemy party or encounter should have a magic user dedicated to crowd control.
#2 strider13x Mar 25, 2015 18:26:23	No. First they take 1/2 of 1/2 damage. That's 4 damage per round. Second, the door as a hostile target? Hummmm.... maybe? But kinda weak. I guess I would allow it given the circumstances.
#3 jaelis Mar 25, 2015 18:41:50	Definitely 4 dmg per round. Well maybe 3 with generous rounding. And I wouldn't count a door as hostile.
#4 Glimjack Mar 25, 2015 20:06:05	I definitely wouldn't rule that a locked door was a hostile creature. The rage should have ended if he took 0 damage. However 4 damage, per round seems correct. As it was designed to put him to sleep without physical harm I'd also call it psychic damage and ignore his resistance.
#5 Macv12 Mar 25, 2015 20:46:36	Taking HP damage from something that doesn't cause lethal "damage" seems incongruous to me. I could use Cure Wounds to avoid that. Better to just make people fail 3 CON saves or something before falling unconscious, HP intact. Then the resistance of the barbarian wouldn't factor anyway.
#6 Byakugan01 Mar 25, 2015 22:47:30	I'm also not a fan of gas that you make deal damage if your goal was to just put them to sleep.       Also, in general a poison gas trap in a room with no escape is pretty high up there in terms of CR.  Why so mean?
#7 FrogReaver Mar 25, 2015 22:51:12	Umbacano wrote:
#8 p3ck Mar 26, 2015 0:24:27	Is barb damage resistance vs bludgeon pierce and slash. Gas no worky fellas
#9 strider13x Mar 26, 2015 3:06:49	p3ck wrote:
(Reply to #8) p3ck	p3ck wrote:
#11 Filksinger Apr 04, 2015 14:49:18	Hmmmm... I seem to recall reading in the "simple Q&A  forum" that "taking half damage" (i.e. Resistance) was a yes-or-no state, similar to Advantage or Disadvantage. You either have it or you don't.  So it doesn't matter if you have 2 different ways of gaining Resistance, it doesn't go down to 1/4 damage.  This is a change from how things were done in previous editions, true - but so are many rules in 5E.  I note that the wording on Saving Throws (PH 205) says that "The DC to RESIST (emphasis mine) one of your spells....).  So you either gain Resistance (1/2 damage) by making a Saving Throw or you gain Resistance (1/2 damage) by that Bear Totem feature while Raging, but there is no "Double Resistance for 1/4 damage".   As for the rage ending - it doesn't specify that the damage you take (to keep the rage going) must be from a hostile creature.  It says your turn ends if "you haven't attacked a hostile creature (you haven't) since your last turn or TAKEN DAMAGE (emphasis mine)".  It doesn't say what the source of the damage must be.  Hostile creature counts, sure - but so does poison gas, standing on burning coals, even getting hit by a non-hostile teammate - ANY source of damage counts per the wording.
#12 Jamwes Apr 07, 2015 9:35:44	Filksinger wrote:
#13 Filksinger Apr 08, 2015 3:56:00	The Basic Rules agree with the Players Handbook rules, page 197 in the section "Damage Resistance and Vulnerability".   Now yes, both agree that if you have something that reduces damage by a SET AMOUNT (say, 5 hp), that is applied first and only then does the Resistance apply (taking half of the remaining damage).  But we aren't talking about something reducing by a set amount and then a set percentage. Both the Saving Throw and the Totem are reducing damage by half.   And BR and PH agree here as well: "Multiple instances of resistance or vulnerability that affect the same damage type count only as one instance. For example, if a creature has resistance to fire damage as well as resistance to all non-magical damage, the damage to a non-magical fire is reduced by half against the creature, not reduced by three-quarters."   You have the word "resistance" in the totem ability, and under saving throw they say you roll to "resist", and they both reduce damage by 1/2.  It's the same thing, and you only get it once.    I'm pretty sure this was the rules section referenced in that "simple Q&A" thread, but I'm not going to manually search 4000+ threads to find it.
#14 Kentus Apr 08, 2015 6:59:40	Filksinger wrote:
#15 MasterNamer Apr 08, 2015 9:53:58	It seems like the player would take half of half of the damage, which would be 3, since the default assumption about rounding is to round down.
(Reply to #13) Jamwes	Filksinger wrote:
#17 RulesJD Apr 08, 2015 16:24:58	As an additional statement that a save + resistance = 1/4 damage: Certain classes have the ability to take zero damage from a successful save (Rogue Evasion, etc).  That does not mean that the character suddenly gained immunity to the damage, just that they avoided it completely.  Making a save does not = resistance.