I just picked up the starter box a month or so ago and I have never played any sort of tabletop rpg game like this before, either as a DM or a PC, but I have had a bit of similar experience with an online zelda roleplaying forum that was, I suspect, based on the DnD rules edition at the time. I watcheda few official DnD videos on youtube - the PAX stuff and the starter box playthrough - to get a feel for how to play, and did a thorough study of the included rules booklet. So far we've only met up to play twice, and I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on how to do it, but I do have a few questions.
1) Running from battles? I know moving away from a nearby enemy provokes an opportunity attack, which can be countered by disengaging, but all that would do is get you 30 feet away from the enemy... Is it possible to completely run away from a battle? How could you do that?
2) watching the official Lost Mines of Phandelver playthrough videos, there's a few times where the DM has the goblins attack, and then also hide at the end of their turn. This confused me for several reasons: isn't hiding an action? So they shouldn't have been able to both hide and attack in one turn? And once they attack, they become seen. Shouldn't this prevent them from hiding at all?
3) as far as stealth is concerned, I assume that NPC's can only see party members who fail their stealth checks, correct? Like, the whole party is trying to sneak up on a group of enemies and half of them fail their stealth checks. Does that mean the goblins only see the people who failed, or is the whole party given away?
And if they say they're being stealthy, and aren't around any NPC's, but come upon NPC's later, should I make them roll stealth checks when they start stealth-ing or whenever they encounter someone who might see them? For example: A PC says they want to sneak into a cave. I know there are goblins further up the cave that they won't immediately encounter but will in a few minutes. Do they roll for stealth upon entering the cave, or upon entering the awareness-range of the goblins, or both?
4) what's the difference between "current hit points" and "temporary hit points", as marked on the character sheets?
5) What should I do in a situation where the PCs aren't in initiative and want to keep re-doing the same thing over and over until their check suceeds? For example: Someone wants to search a room for trap or treasure that they suspect might be there and they fail and don't see anything. Could they just keep rolling perception checks until they succeed?
Or if they are trying to interrogate someone but fail their charisma/intimidation checks. Could they just keep rolling the checks until it works? Why even bother making them roll for that at all then?
6) carring capacity. I know how to calculate a character's carrying capacaty and how to check weight of individual items, but... it seems like a hassle to keep track of. But some of my players want to just completely strip the corpses of every enemy they fight to either sell the equipment later or use for themselves. Is it worth keeping track of? Also, as far as selling goes, is the selling price of an item the same as the buying price? (skyrim is making me quesiton this one haha). And as for arrows, i know they can only recover half of the arrows they use, but they could also loot arrows off of their enemies, right? And what about arrows spent BY the enemy? It seems like there's no way anyone could ever run out of arrows, so is it really necessary to keep track of how many they have? (also, i noticed the goblins in the starter kit have bows, but no arrows - I assumed they would have arrows on them, but when the PC's wanted to loot their arrows, I just had to make up a number of arrows they had - 10. Is that reasonable? Should I do that differently?)
7) so do attack spells use some an attack roll for cth, like anything else? What is the modifier for it?
I dunno, I feel like I had a bunch of other questions that I can't remember at the moment, but I'm sure as we keep playing I'll keep coming across stuff I'll want clarification for. I apologize if I'm posting this the wrong way or in the wrong place; I'm new to these forums as well. Thanks in advance!
thedandyman wrote:
thedandyman wrote:
thedandyman wrote:
Running away from battles:
I've not yet had any trouble using a Disengage Action to get myself out of a fight. (Since I'm playing a high-AC Paladin, getting beat up during a fight has not yet been a problem.)
Getting my allies to join me in fleeing, however, is a different story. 
BRJN wrote:
thedandyman wrote:
I never allow multiple roles for the same tasks. If searching with plenty of time or with help I either just let them find whatever is there, or they make a single roll with advantage. Whenever I have a player make an ability check "something happens" as a result, not "nothing happens". This is especially true for Charisma type checks; the person you're interacting with is going to have some reaction to your attempt, for better or worse!
Fleeing from a battle, or fleeing in general, can lead to the "Chase" mechanics which are in the DMG Pg.#252-255.
These answers have all been super helpful, and I've adjusted accordingly... and ran into a few other issues.
My PC's are in the habit of always, always, always leaving at least one enemy in any given fight alive after the battle so they can thoroughly interrogate them. I have a few questions about this.
Are there any rules for knocking someone unconcious other than having the PC's say they want to knock them unconcious instead of killing them when they deal the final blow? All the starter kit has to say about it is this: "A character can use any melee weapon to knock (a goblin, in this case) unconcious, succeeding if the attack deals enough damage to drop the goblin to 0 hit points. Once it regains consciousness after a few minutes, a captured (goblin) can be convinced to share what it knows."
Obviously they have to pass an intimidation or persuasion check to get their captive to talk, and I make it harder for them to pass if it's a stronger character, but it just seems a little "game breaking" when they somehow manage find the boss of the dungeon withing ten minutes of stepping into the lair (they always look for and take hidden passageways, which of course lead almost directly to the boss in the starter set adventure), defeating him and knocking him unconcious, and successfully intimidating the boss into telling them "everything he knows" about the rest of the dungeon. The more often this happens, the more I try to fight it, but I think my biggest problem is that they aren't really roleplaying so much as they are just trying to win and get as much loot as they can... which makes it difficult for me to realistically interact with them as an NPC or enemy character.
And even though I could impose a "one try" check for intimidation or what have you, all four PC's will each try their hand at interrogating the captive and chances are one of them will succeed. At which point... is the NPC just like an open book to them? Do I have to answer whatever question they ask? They'll even try to get me (as their captured enemy) to draw them a map of the rest of the dungeon, or detail how many enemies there are, or where all the traps and treasure are. And they'll threaten with torture or death. And realistically, if they've captured someone and are threatening to pull off all his fingernails and slow roast him over a fire, I'm sure he would tell them whatever they want to know... but they seem a lot more like villains at this point than heroes.
And here's the dreaded question..... grappling.
Like, if they want to catch someone and tie him up with rope, how does that work? the way I did this was have them succeed a strength contest with the enemy they were trying to catch, and then take another turn to tie him up, but is it more complicated than that? Is it possible for them to end a fight just by grabbing an enemy and putting their sword up to this neck and threatening to slit his throat?
And what about instant kills? There have been several times they'll sneak up on some enemies and one of the PC's will ask if he could attack very specifically, such as putting an arrow through someone's throat to prevent them from calling out for help, or aiming at other specific body parts (head, heart) with the intention of instantly killing them. He insisted that logically since the entire group had managed to sneak up on a couple of hobgoblins, that they could take a moment or two to all collectively aim right at their heads and all let loose their arrows and kill them silently and without a "fight." Is this allowed? How do I handle this? This same PC tends to have a problem playing by initiative, claiming that it should all be happening in real time and that logically if his character hasn't had a turn yet and hasn't been attacked yet, he would obviously be automatically ready to throw his hand axes at an enemy who might suddenly turn tail and run for help.
...If you can't tell already, these sessions have begun to become a little stressed. But I don't want to just hand them the game on a siilver platter and let them do whatever they want simply for the sake of "the PC's are alwasy right and they should always be having fun".
With the constant interrogations, I would use a number of approaches, perhaps determined by the success or failure of the interrogation check (if one is needed). Take the best result if more than one PC is doing the interrogation.
- Success by more than 10 - NPC is an 'open book'. This may be moderated by the motivation of the prisoner. e.g. a common guard will want to live and won't care if it has to divulge information to do so. A boss might try to get some quid pro quo arrangement.
- Success by 6-10: NPC tells mostly truths but may include some lies or leave out important information e.g. tells about a treasure chest but leaves out that it is trapped.
- Success by 5 or less: NPC tells some useful information but most is trivial or lies or half-truths. The NPC 'squeals' so much it becomes annoying or seems like lying.
- Failure: NPC gives one true piece of information but seems to be lying; the rest are lies or truths that lead to traps e.g. there are a few guards in that room, when there are a dozen.
- Failure by more than 5: the NPC is a closed book, refusing to speak and would rather die than divulge information; or gives lies and any truthful information is designed to harm the PCs. e.g. a common guard is motivated by ideology and cannot be reasoned with, or is so afraid of his boss that he would rather risk his chances with the PCs than the certainty of death at the boss' hands.
These are just general ideas and are not meant to be mechanical and kill role playing but may be useful guidelines.
Also, the treatment of past prisoners by the PCs may become known to other NPCs if the PCs are doing it often enough - this could lead to new prisoners being sceptical of any threats or promises the PCs make ("You won't really hurt me" or "You are going to kill me anyway").
thedandyman wrote:
"Leaving the last one alive" - if the monster is knocked unconcious, it might not wake up after a few minutes. It might not wake up for hours. The normal rule is 1d4 hours (PHB, top of p.198, or Basic Rules, bottom of p.76) Start using that. If they want to shorten that time, they have to heal it. Yes, that's right, to wake it up quickly, they have to adminster healing, just as they would for a comrade who had been dropped to 0 hit points. Same rules apply. Are the players going to use up their precious healing resources? Or wait around for a few hours and risk wandering monster checks? Or carry the dead weight of the unconscious monster around with them all day? Snoring and yelling out spontaneously and ruining their chances of going Stealthy? That's their problem.
When it does wake up, it might have concussion or amnesia. Maybe It's forgotten everything and can tell them nothing, More fun, it mistakes one of the player characters for its mother and clings to him shrieking, at every opportunity. Or, if you have the DMG, there are some examples of short-term madness on p.259. A cleric of high enough level might be able to use a spell to counteract the madness, but that costs a spell so they players have a choice to make. Basically, make revived monsters inconvenient in an amusing way and let the players decide what to do about it
Grapple - grappling is not a free lunch, it only prevents movement, It doesn't prevent actions. If the fighter grapples a goblin, all it means is that the goblin can't move. The goblin doesn't have to try to break free - it can still use its turns to attack the fighter. So what the fighter has got, is a furious goblin who keeps stabbing him. Useful if he wants to stop the goblin escaping and raising the alarm, or for dragging the goblin across to a pit and letting it fall in, but not effective as a way of totally incapacitating an opponent.
"Arrow in the neck" - there are no specific rules for "called shots" as they are called, but giving disadvantage on the attack roll is a popular way of handling it. Then the normal attack rules apply. It's only a kill if it hits and scores enough damage to reduce the target to 0 hit points in the normal way. Damage on a hit is rolled normally - there's no automatical critical damage unless it's a critical hit (which is very difficult with disadvantage - you have to roll two 20s together),
"Playing by initiative" - D&D is a turn-based game. Actions are not simultaneous, any more than they are in chess, say and in combat, especially, everyone takes turns. There are limits on what a creature can do outside of its own turn. If a nearby goblin breaks away and tries to flee without disengaging, a PC within 5 feet might get an opportunity attack as a reaction, Otherwise, if a PC wants to react to a goblin fleeing, he has to say so in advance on his previous turn by using the "Ready an Action" mechanic.
Let the players be creative and try to fit what they want to do into the framwork of the game rules, but don't let the players invent rules that don't exist that would let them "win" unfairly.
(edit - ninja'd by Azylynne 
)
Note that, any advantage from attacking a sentry while hiding would be negated by the disadvantage of trying for a called shot to the neck.
(edit 2) The rule about 1d4 hours to wake up is also on p.13 of the Starter Set Rulebook)
I think most everything has been answered so I'll offer some of my own experience.
Lost Mines Stuff here
It's tougher with bigger creatures (for me), but I've considered bluffing the monster's death if they fail. Maybe they missed a vital artery when they decided to slash the throat or they lost their cool right before letting that arrow fly into that unwary Hobgoblin and it sticks in their chain/shoulder. I've considered similar things with creatures with Natural Armor or cool skin (Nothic Skin/Half-dragon scales).
Redbrand Hideout: A duo of the players decided to scout the tunnel that Carp mentioned and ran into both the Nothic and Bugbears. Upon their realization that their lives were on the line, they started to retreat. I clearly asked, "Are you trying to escape? What's your plan? Please be specific."
One said he wanted to outrun them and the other wanted to dodge into the woods and hide. I had one roll a Dex(Stealth) and the other an opposed Str(Athletics) check. Both succeeded so I narrated the results. The DMG has rules for chasing, but I'm not familiar enough with them so I keep to simple checks/narration.
So attacking an enemy while stealthed gives you advantage and a surprise attack?
Also, for clarification on the grappling- there has been an instance where the PC's wanted to tie up an enemy boss and keep him from attacking by tying up his hands and feet. Wouldn't that also prevent attacking, not just movement? I'm not sure what the difference is between grappling an opponent and tying them up.
And as for "called shots", as bolditalic put it, I'm still a little fuzzy. I can understand having disadvantage for trying to hit a particular spot on a creature, but even if they fail, wouldn't that mean they still have a chance at just hitting the enemy normally? Say, if they pass the check by a certain amount, they hit the spot they were aiming for (possibly silencing a creature by hitting it's throat), but if they only barely pass, it's a hit as normal? Or would I make them roll once with disadvantage to see if they hit what they were aiming for, and then if they fail, make them roll again to see if they hit at all?
thedandyman wrote:
It seems like a lot of my questions have answers in the guide books.... which unfortunately I don't have yet. I just can't afford to drop 50 bucks per book so quickly.... It'll probably be a bit before I've got all three 
but I did just recently order ther Player's Handbook so I should be getting that soon!
The answers to your questions are in the Starter Set Rulebook.
The same answers are also in the free, downloadable Basic PDF, because the text for the combat rules is identical between the two.
The same answers are also in the Players Handbook because, again, the text for the combat rules is identical.
There's only one set of rules.
Nowhere in any of those rules does it mention "surprise rounds" That's because they don't exist. Nowhere does it mention "attacking with surpise". That's because you can't. There's no such thing as "attacking with surprise" in this game. If your players tell you otherwise, correct them.
thedandyman wrote:
I want to chime in on "insta-kills". As mentioned before rolling dice is used when an outcome is uncertain. If the hobgoblin is completely unaware and the players sneak up behind him and put a knife to the heart then allow the kill. But if the hobgoblin is keeping watch then they are aware and have their Hit Points to keep them alive! Loss of HP doesn't always mean a physical blow. If a player sneaks up, attacks, and doesn't reduce the hobgoblin to 0 HP then maybe the hobgoblin reacted at the last moment, spinning away from the knife while drawing his weapon! He still lost HP but you as DM can describe how!
I tend to split HP into 3's. Say a creature has 30 HP, the top 10 I describe as luck and evading (the creatures leaps back narrowly avoiding the deadly strike!). The middle 10 are cuts and bruises (the creature tough hide deflects much of the blow!) The last 10 are meat and bones (you hear the crack of the creatures ribs as you smash it with your mace!) If the players are trying to subdue rather than kill just change the tone of the descriptors (instead of bone crushing describe how they are wearing it down). By consistsnly using this method my players get an idea of how many HP a creature has. Say they did 10 HP damage, if they kill or maim it then they know it HP total is less than 10, if it suffers a blow but is still fighting it has between 15-25 HP, if it skillfully dodges it has 26-40 HP. I had my players battle a Cloud Giant once (well over 100 HP) and the player charged it, attacked for 20 HP of damage! I described how the Giant stood from its chair, drew its weapon and took a battle stance! No physical contact! The player knew he had a tough fight on his hands because 20 HP didn't even phase the opponent!!
I also encourage the players to describe their own HP loss. Some players will describe how they evade every blow, and some will be covered in blood. But once they reach 0 you the DM describe how they fall! Think of HP as story points, the more HP the more story that can be told. Another time I had a Wizard that would create mystical shields to reflect sword strikes! It was still HP loss but sounded cool!
Wait, you're telling me surprise doesn't exist? That's a little confusing, becasue the Starter Set Rulebook says this:
"The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (stealth) Checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't."
I haven't taken the time to print out the basic rules from the website, and I don't have a laptop to read it on the go, so all I really have to go on when we're in the game is the Starter Set Rulebook. Typically if something doesn't make immediate sense, we'll just make it up and I'll ask about it here later. Again, my PHB should be arriving in a week or so, and hopefully that will clear up some things, but it's a lot easier to understand something if it's explained by another person who has similar experience. So again, thanks for your patience with me! I'm still really new to this and hopefully this'll get easier as time goes on haha
thedandyman wrote:
thedandyman wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
Here's a little more from the PDF...
Surprise
A band of adventurers sneaks up on a bandit camp, springing from the trees to attack them. A gelatinous cube glides down a dungeon passage, unnoticed by the adventurers until the cube engulfs one of them. In these situations, one side of the battle gains surprise over the other.
The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t.
Surprise doen't automatically mean Advantage. Just that those that are suprised can't attack for one round.
CaliMafioso wrote:
Re interrogations:
These scenes are usually beat. The outcome isn't uncertain, therefore in these cases, I give out whatever information the interrogee is in a position to give. This includes enemy camp layouts and general status of forces. I dispense with this quickly and I like it and here's why: It allows me to skip the stupid bits ("we threaten to cut off X body part, then y body part, then..") and it lets me SET UP WHAT COMES NEXT.
Dont look at interrogations as a peak into your super secret DM stuff. Look at it as an opportunity to hook the players into the next bit of the game.
When you're done telling them what you want them to know, say so. "You spend another hour threatening and beating the captive but his responses become desperately wild lies - it's plain you've got whatever information he has to give." Boom! End scene.
Regarding insta-kills.
I don't use the combat rules for D&D unless combat breaks out. So when my assassin player sneaks into position to try to take someone out quietly, I set the appropriate Difficulty number and ask them to make a check - and I tell them what will happen if they succeed or fail. The consequences match the importance.
So if you sneak up behind a guard and garrote them, the DC is lower and the consequences for failure often are simply that he gets a warning out before dying.
But if you sneak into the enemy general's tent the DC is higher. If you fail, maybe it was a trap all along! (And you're surprised while the general and his guards beat the snot out of you). But if you make it...
Anyway - I only use the rules when they help me do what *I* want to do. I don't use rules "because that's the way the books says to." The reason we have a DM is so that the DM can run the game. The rules don't do that for me and they aren't meant to supplant my judgement. They are designed to help me.
So whenever you're in a situation and you're not sure what to do, go back to the basics. Identify your players' goals (their objective & how they try to achieve it) and put something right in their way. That's seriously the whole game.
So would there be any instances where you get advantage from stealth but not surprise? Or surprise but not advantage?
thedandyman wrote:
If the enemy notices anyone in the party, they are not surprised. Some of the PCs could be hidden while others are not.
thedandyman wrote:
I think I'm getting it... but just to make sure, here's a typical run through of what my PC's will do when entering a new room:
1) Have one PC peek through the door or around the corner. I'll usually make him do a stealth check to see if the door is creaky or something like that that could alert anyone in the room to the PC's presence. Usually they'll send the stealthy guy, so usually he succeeds and scouts out the room unseen.
2) the PC will report back to the other PC's everything he saw, including number of enemies and where they are
3) they then attack the creatures in the room either by
a) all trying to sneak in (I'll make them all roll individual stealth checks) and use ranged attacks from being stealthy - granting them advantage and surprising the enemies - or
b) rush through the door at once and launch a melee attack on the enemies, giving them surprise, but not stealth advantage
They've managed to bulldoze through almost every room in one particular dungeon this way. Surprise the enemies, kill them within 1 or 2 rounds, loot the room, and repeat the process for the next room. None of the NPC enemies ever have time or opportunity to break away and warn anyone else in the dungeon about the intruders. Surprise is, at this point, beginning to look really overpowered. And any time I try to argue against them having surprise, they always argue right back that no no no, logically these enemies should be surprised because they weren't expecting an attack, and we spend fifteen minutes arguing back and forth over whether or not the enemies are surprised. And whenever I put my foot down and say no, the enemies are not surprise this time, I'm usually met with grumpy players who will claim I'm not being fair or realistic and I'm trying to rig the game against them. What could I do to make it harder for them to surprise the enemies, realistically?
Also, if a character is surprised by ANY other person, even if they're just surprised by one person in a group of four, are they still prevented from taking an action that round, at all?
Basically it boils down to the fact that my players really like to abuse surprise and I'm not sure how to go about circumventing that without making them disgruntled.
thedandyman wrote:
A monster is not surprised unless all of the PCs are successfully stealthy. The tank in heavy armour can ruin it for the whole party. That's why they send out a lone scout.
It sounds like you need to make the dungeon less passive and more challenging.
- Creaky and stuck doors ruin stealth and ruin surprise. Use them!
- A lone scout risks discovery. If discovered, he may be outnumbered, grappled, tied up and interrogated while the other PCs have no idea what has happened to him.
- Monsters don't have to stand still in their rooms waiting to be found. Guards can move about from room to room, patrol passages and generally be on the alert for intruders.
- If there are more (low-level) monsters in a room than there are PCs in the party, they won't all get killed in one round even if they are surprised. Some can escape to raise the alarm.
- Trip wires across passages can trigger alarms that alert a whole dungeon level.
- The PCs can be surprised, too.
- A group of monsters in a room who are relaxing and susceptible to being surprised can post a guard who is never surprised
- A guard behind the door may get an attack of opportunity if the PCs burst in and rush into the room past him
- If the PCs burst through a door, they may see an apparently empty room and have nothing to attack. The archers are up in a gallery above the doorway ...
The monstrers want to defend their dungeon from intruders. Intelligent monsters will quickly learn what tactics the players are using and find ways to counter them. (That means you).