Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Daganev Jul 07, 2014 23:46:52	It's a simple question with a lot of rule and rule theory interaction.   Here is the scenario. You have a level 3 lightfood halfling rogue, encountering an Ogre in a 1 on 1 situation.  The Halfling uses his move to move into the space of the Ogre, uses his cunning action to attempt to hide, (being obscured by the Ogre), and then hits the Ogre in the groin (Sneak attack with advantage), and then moves out from under the ogre, since you can't end your turn in an occupied space.   Does this work?   The main questions are, "How do we know if a character is obscured by a creature larger than it?" and "Are tall bulky creatures like the Ogre, able to see under them, or in their space?", "Does it matter what the creature looks like/is shaped like?"
#2 SilentSin Jul 08, 2014 2:00:11	If you can't run behind someone and try to hide, you can't run under them and try to hide either.   I don't recall seeing anything in the rules that is specific about this, but that's how I'd rule it.
#3 Daganev Jul 08, 2014 2:30:02	Oh another piece, the halfing racial description talks about how they stay hidden by staying out of notice under taller people.
#4 lawrencehoy Jul 08, 2014 3:48:52	I would think that the ogre is aware of what is underneath them; by either sight, sound, smell or touch (even if that is just feeling radiated heat or some air movement). I wouldn't allow the hide attempt to succeed in this situation; the intent of the rule is, most likely, that the halfling can use that creature to hide from other creatures. It doesn't make sense, in combat, that he can hide from that creature itself; given the extra alertness during combat that is implied in the "Hiding" sidebar.
#5 AH_schulerta Jul 08, 2014 4:43:52	Was the halfing hidden before moving toward the ogre's space? If so, then hiding under the target doesn't really gain anything for him. He just needs to move to an adjacent square and attack. If not, how did he get under the ogre without him noticing?
#6 Joe_the_Rat Jul 08, 2014 5:31:33	(Disclaimer: this scenario has a strong Rule of Cool factor that leans me towards allowing it)   I'd let an unknown (to target) Lightfoot try to hide from a 2+ larger target in the same square. Being in-square or adjacent at the time of attack has some implications for other opponents (like if they can see him before he attacks), but for the purposes of the attack I see no issue. I might allow it on a one-larger opponent. Pity there aren't any finesse blunt objects that could come into play for Sneak Attack...   For a known Lightfoot... He'd have to make himself get lost (Hide) in the skirmish before attempting this. The Ogre may know you're somewhere, but if he doesn't know exactly where you are before you attempt an Underfoot Shuffle, you might be able to sneak under while he isn't looking. This is all keying off of the Lightfoot's ability to hide behind creatures.   No matter what, making attack = cover broken is in play. And the key is you have to be hidden / lost to the target before you can do this. If you know something has moved underfoot, you are definitely going to be paying attention, but if it sneaks up first, you can be caught unawares until you trip over it. Stupid cat.
(Reply to #5) Daganev	AH_schulerta wrote:
(Reply to #7) Kravell	Daganev wrote:
#9 Jiggadias Jul 08, 2014 11:22:02	If it wasn't a. 1-on-1, I could see the halfling hiding behind a fighter until they are in range, then moving from between the fighter's legs to between the ogre's legs (on successful Dex Stealth DC 15.)
#10 ChrisTheS Jul 08, 2014 13:46:52	How stupid is the ogre in this equation?  If it's like most big dumb carnivorous monsters in fairy tales, I absolutely would let it work like that.
#11 edwin_su Jul 08, 2014 16:26:49	Daganev wrote:
#12 Psikerlord Jul 09, 2014 1:02:54	definitely no. just no. no hiding under the guy youre fighting. at all.
#13 Sands666 Jul 09, 2014 4:22:20	Psikerlord wrote:
#14 Sands666 Jul 09, 2014 4:24:21	Honestly I really don't like this halfling trait. Hiding behind medium creatures in combat seems CHEESY
#15 Psikerlord Jul 09, 2014 5:48:59	agree, but it is mostly easily gotten around.
#16 Sands666 Jul 09, 2014 6:05:36	Is it?  I am starting to wonder what's going on with the Rogue and Halfling combo... it seems kind of nasty and a bit overpowered.  If you have the Lightfoot Halfling, and the Rogue with Cunning Action (which allows you a bonus action to Hide, Dash or Disengage), then imagine how often the character in combat will be allowed to use their sneak attack. Any time the Rogue can get advantage, they can get sneak attack damage.  The Lightfoot Halfling Rogue can get advantage by hiding in the beginning of combat, hiding (maybe even as a bonus action) behind his friends DURING COMBAT and the Rogue will then ALSO get sneak attack if two enemies are adjacent to each other.  That means, that when the rogue attacks he gets ADVANTAGE, SNEAK ATTACK DAMAGE and let's not forget that the Halfling gets to reroll 1s!  At 20th level, this character is doing 10d6 extra damage on every sneak attack.   Not only does this seem overpowered, but in every round of the game, it seems like it will become distracting.  Every round, the player with the rogue is going to be hiding and the DM is going to have to make perception checks to see if the bad guys notice the rogue hiding behind his friends.  I don't think I like this very much at all...
#17 Joe_the_Rat Jul 09, 2014 8:08:52	This sounds like standard procedure for Rogues in general. The only advantage for Lightfoots is that their ability to hide is not environment-dependent, but party-dependent. Shoot-move-rehide behind an ally for Advantage, and gain Sneak Attack if none of your party are within 5 feet of the target (if there is someone that close, you already have Sneak Attack).
#18 Chaosmancer Jul 09, 2014 13:29:17	From how I understand the hiding rules there is a problem with that plan. Once the rogue moves out from behind the guy they are hiding behind, the enemy can see them. Unless they can attack through their ally this is a difficult thing to pull off.   Then again, for my interpretation I'm assuming the medium creature has to be in-between the halfling and whoever he is hiding from, and that otherwise it won't work.
#19 lawrencehoy Jul 09, 2014 22:23:57	Chaosmancer wrote:
(Reply to #16) Daganev	Sands666 wrote:
#21 mellored Jul 10, 2014 6:02:50	Sands666 wrote:
#22 Sands666 Jul 10, 2014 16:10:12	mellored wrote:
#23 mellored Jul 11, 2014 10:31:08	Sands666 wrote: