~~Can a Paladin and Warlock combination even work?
A Paladin swears to uphold justice and righteousness
A Warlock might lead a cult dedicated to a demon prince, an arch devil, or an utterly alien entity - beings not typically served by clerics, like Arch Fey, normally not Good
I see no problems.
Nothing in the PHB prevents paladins from being evil, or neutral. The flavor-text aside, there are no alignment restrictions in 5E and it even says that paladins are rarely evil. You could be evil.
Nor is there anything in the PHB which makes warlocks evil. Their pacts do not have to be evil creatures. Archfey could easily be of good alignments. Many fey would be of good or neutral alignments -- Summer Court, Prince of Frosts, etc. other sylvan gods and servants, etc. are not evil. Same with great old ones... you can find one's not necessarily evil. Even with evil ones... nothing says you have to agree or worship them. The PHB even asks "What kind of relationship do you have with your patron? Is it friendly, antagonistic, uneasy, or romantic?" You might be using the being. It might have no choice but to help you. Your order might have imprisoned it and are forcing it to aid you. You might have a book of stolen secrets from one of its cultists and are using its powers to hunt down other cultists or banish it. Maybe it hate you as much as you hate it, but you carry an amulet that it is hoping will fall into the hands of an evil cultist. Maybe you killed a hermit and his spirit is trying to live on through you... and it is too weak to escape until you die. Such beings are not gods and may not have any ability to personally monitor access to its powers or judge those doing so.
Athinar1 wrote:
From a mechanical side: I'm thinking about a warlock lvl3/paladin lvl2 (for divine smite) and then lots of sorcerer levels. The warlock and the sorcerer get spell slots a lot faster then the paladin does which can all be turned into extra damage with divine smite.
As roleplaying the pact goes, there are lots of ways to do it. For instance you could have signed a deal with a devil not knowing what you were getting yourself into, and once you saw the evil that it was you turned away from evil and swore an oath to follow <insert good god here>. You are still bound by the pact that you signed though. One of a thousand intresting ways to RP it.
I'll just point out again that Divine Smite explicitly says that you can expend paladin spell slots (for some reason), so multiclassing into sorcerer or especially warlock for extra smites may be in questionable territory.
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
Brige wrote:
obsid wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
At any rate, upon finding a tweet I hadn't noticed, the word "paladin" in my concern is apparently an oversight or typo and thus any spell slots are fair game for Divine Smite.
Hey, i don't care about the MulitClassing or even Spell-Slots, it is already broken and missed used
Pg 122 - Neutral Evil (NE) is the alignment of those who do whateverr they can get away with, without compssion or qualms. Many Drow, some cloud gaints, and yugoloths are nuetrak evil.
~~A Paladin swears to uphold justice and righteousness
This does not work together so the game is missed used and is broken
Fallen Paladin - ~~For instance you could have signed a deal with a devil not knowing what you were getting yourself into, and once you saw the evil that it was you turned away
I'm not letting this damn book tell me what to do
DM's are giving away +15 two handed swords to Halfling too
Athinar1 wrote:
Oh, and:
This is the rules forum, you asked a question, can paladins multiclass with warlocks acording to the rules.
Answer: yes they can
You obviously don't like the answer, so you are trying to argue RP reasons why it shouldn't work... What is your angle? Is it just nerd rage or is there another reason why you want the rules to read that you can't multiclass warlock and paladin?
Rules allow this combination but I think it's terrible RP wise and only people interested just in math will take it.
How is it a terrible idea for role playing? Way back in AD&D paladins were not just Lawful Good. There was a great article in Dragon magazine that spelt out the different skills, rules and lore for paladins of every type of alignment. I had a lot of fun playing a Lawful evil paladin of Loviatar, the goddes of pain. Each type of paladin has their own set of values and ethos on world view, justice, and honor based on their Gods' belief. This is totally exceptable even in the real world. Just look at our past history. Were the crusades just and honorable? At that time, the europeans sure thought they were, you could even call their warriors, paladins doing the work of God. In reality they were doing the work of the self serving clergy men whom wanted wealth and new territories. But, this is not a discussion about our history. This is a discussion about a fantasy realm where we all want to have fun. If a player has an idea and is excited about role playing a particular character, why would you burst his or her bubble and deny them their pleasure? After all, we just want to have fun playing in a fantasy world together.
With no alignment stuff for paladins you can make an "anti-paladin" with the core class. So there is no issue. If they make an anti-paladin or black guard class im going to lament for the space could have been used for something else.
Seems like this would be right up the Oath of Vengance Paladin's alley. Feypact on Ancients also fits fairly well, RP wise.
Lipfi wrote:
Athinar1 wrote:
Based on the two questions actually being asked:
- Can you multiclass Paladin and Warlock?
Yes, nothing in the rules stops you from doing that. Previous editions actually had feats that required you to have levels in both Paladin and Warlock before you could take them.
- Can you use Divine Smite with the spell slots you gain as a Warlock?
The multiclass rules specifically say how one class with the Spellcasting feature interacts with the Warlock Pact Magic feature (PH, p.164); you can use the Pact Magic slots to cast spells from your Spellcasting class, and you can use Spellcasting class slots to cast Warlock spells you know. There is nothing to suggest you can or cannot expend the Pact Magic slots to power DIvine Smite (or any other ability that uses spell slots for something other than spellcasting), so a DM is welcome to rule either way.
--
Pauper
~~I'm old school Basic, 1E, and 2E, then starting playing with 3.5/Pathfinder, but stopped, too many books
Old School Paladin's were Good to the last drop, but I did play with the other alignment Paladins, so yes, other race paladins would see life from their point of view. But this book came out with the "uphold justice and righteousness" which sounds Like plain old Good to me, Good for any race
Anit-Paladins are the reverrse of Justice and righteousness
"to uphold justice and righteousness" sounds Lawful to me and not NE
Neutral Evil (NE) is the alignment of those who do what ever they can get away with, without compassion or qualms.
also for those that did not get it, sarcasm for “I'm not letting this damn book tell me what to do”
Without delving into the territory of fiends tricking LG paladins or NE paladins making pacts with demons, I think a Fey Pact Warlock would fit fine with an Oath of the Ancients Paladins.
In regard to the "demon" stuff, though, nothing says a Vengeance paladin can't do evil things to promote their oath. Doesn't it actually say the opposte - that they do whatever is necessary?
I'm not particularly thrilled about it, being a "classic" paladin fan, but then again, the "classic" paladin is really mostly the Oath of Devotion (?) LG Paladin, which probably wouldn't swear a Fiend or Great Old One pact. Fey pact, maybe. Maybe they are an Arthurian character and are LG but were beguiled by a powerful enchantress (Archfey)?
At any rate, there are no rules restrictions about Paladin/Warlock, that can of worms is open for roleplaying.
Athinar1 wrote:
Athinar1 wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
Yeah, I saw that too, so apparently that part it doesn't matter.
Athinar1 wrote:
A CG Paladin of Freedom sworn to some sort of Fey sounds like fun.
A warlock in my setting has a backstory that he made a pact with an archangel of justice. I basically gave the infernal pact a reskin to be less demonic and more righteous burning. He's only level 2, and stinking cloud will be replaced as an expanded spell selection when he reaches it. All the other burny abilities are kind of in line with a celestial agent who'd like to scour the earth of evil, by the flame! He could conceivably become a paladin in service to the archangel's own patron with multiclassing later.
Though I'm sure he won't. Just sharing to give more ideas on how the two classes could be combined in a narrative sense in addition to the mechanics.
Nevvur wrote:
My take on this comes from Brent Weeks "Night Angel Triology".
Paladin 2/Warlock x. Officer in the army of the Godking, tasked with keeping law and order, and then trained by a Würdmeister in the art of vir for his continued warlock levels, having his paladin oath (not taken, but planned, and allegiance) to the Godking, and his Warlock pact to Khali. Human with Heavy Armor Mastery feat, you have a plate-wearing warlock with damage reduction, shield, healing, smite for melee, and blasting warlock with plenty of extra spell slots from paladin multiclass to feed smites, healing and warlock spells. Fiend gives you back temp hp for each kill, so largly self-sustained tank with blasts from hell, raging from vir-tattoos across his face and whatever else skin you can see 
As for RP elements, an Oath of the Anchients / Arch Fey Paladin / Warlock just screams to go together.
Lured by the Fey lady at the bottom of your garden, you swear fealty to her. Your love for her spuring you on to protect her, her light, and the natural world she lives in. In return, she infuses you, her sworn protector, with some of her Fey potential.
Expand on that however you wish.