Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 intently Nov 21, 2014 14:10:36	In this thread Sorxores makes an interesting observation: by RAW, nothing prevents sorcerers from storing up spell slots or sorcery points created using their flexible casting feature. I had assumed that the SP/slots created would need to be immediately expended, but the PHB certainly doesn't say that. Other than "common sense", there's no reason a sorcerer couldn't expend her spell slots every day and convert them to sorcery points, with no limit, or vice versa.   One potential fix would be to specify that spell slots and socery points reset to their baseline values after a long rest. However that wouldn't prevent a sorcerer from creating 1000s of either one during a year-long break from adventuring by never "resting".   Thoughts?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 21, 2014 14:40:43	A tweet from Mike Mearls stated that spell slots created through spell points go away after a long rest - the book, however, is unclear on that matter.   Spell points, on the other hand, the book is perfectly clear that "You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level." and "You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest."   I think it is probably intended that when the character's spell points return to their maximum value at the end of a long rest, the character's spell slots also return to their normal maximum value - despite the unfortunate choice of wording "you regain all expended spell slots," which provides a technicality for people attempting to game the system to latch onto.   And lastly, regarding never resting - the DM exists specifically for such instances where the rules aren't clear, but the outcome is: you would die from the physical stress of not sleeping in roughly a week, if not sooner.
#3 Novacat Nov 21, 2014 14:42:50	Well, the entry for Sorcery Points does specify that you can never have more sorcery points than indicated on the Sorcerer's level table. So, saving sorcery points from day to day doesn't help you at all, because you can't go above your normal maximum, and you regain all lost sorcery points at the end of a long rest.   As for spell slots, you are right that it doesn't explicitly forbid going above your normal maximum, but to allow a sorcerer to effectively have unlimited spell slots with sufficient downtime is absurd. So, the easiest fix I can think of is to amend the Flexible Spellcasting feature to specify that you can convert sorcery points to regain *expended* spell slots. That would prevent a sorcerer from exceeding his normal maximum, since he must expend spell slots before he can regain them.
(Reply to #3) AaronOfBarbaria	Novacat wrote:
#5 SilentSin Nov 21, 2014 15:21:54	intently wrote:
#6 cowleymen Nov 21, 2014 15:29:00	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#7 DaveDash Nov 21, 2014 16:01:38	I think its more interesting that a Sorcerer (at 6th level) can seemingly learn a 4th level spell. The example doesn't explicitly say they can (under spells know), but it doesn't explicitly say they cannot either. The qualifying statement is they must have spell slots of that level. If they covert points into a higher level spell slot when they level, do they qualify as having those slots?
(Reply to #7) AaronOfBarbaria	DaveDash wrote:
#9 DaveDash Nov 21, 2014 16:28:45	I tend to agree with your assessment Aaron.
#10 FrogReaver Nov 21, 2014 21:23:20	Could you learn fireball as a level 3 sorceror?  Trade a level 2 spell in for 2 spell points.  You get 5 spell points and use those to create a lvl 3 spell slot and then you use that learn fireball?  Fireball at level 3 would be super awesome.  Just sayin...
#11 Novacat Nov 21, 2014 21:29:45	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #11) FrogReaver	Novacat wrote:
#13 El_Condoro Nov 21, 2014 22:37:01	Sorceror table p. 100 PHB: A 3rd level sorceror has 3 sorcery points maximum. "Sorcery Points" p. 101 PHB. A 3rd level spell (fireball) costs 5 points. "Creating Spell Slots" table p. 101 PHB The sorceror could expend 2 SPs for a 1st level spell (and keep one SP) or 3 SPs for a 2nd level spell. p. 101 PHB Then he/she would need to take a long rest to regain the SPs or convert a spell into SPs. p. 101 PHB.   Is that what you mean by RAW or some other definition?
#14 Novacat Nov 21, 2014 22:47:30	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #13) FrogReaver	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #14) FrogReaver	Novacat wrote:
#17 Sorxores Nov 22, 2014 12:44:12	Like I said in the initial thread, I believe the RAI was you REGAIN a spell slot instead of CREATING a spell slot, which would prevent you from having more spell slot then what the sorcerer table give you. or that you loost any extra spell slot during a long rest, or that during a long rest to regain your expended spell slot up to a maximum indicated for your sorcerer level. And in no shape or form do I believe that a sorcerer should have near unlimited spell lvl 1 to 5) Yes I believe sorcerer need a power up something like an arcane recovery system similar to the wizard or there capstone ability (regain 4 Sorcerer point on a short rest) at level 2 instead of at level 20 and dragon sorcerer definitively need the capability to change the elements of there spell into there dragon element (so an acid dragon could cast an acidball (fireball dealing acid damage) instead of only having 2 acid spell in the PHB) and maybe being ablke to learn 25-30 spell instead of 15 (which would give them more spell known then the wizard can prepare, but the wizard got a larger choice of spell that he can change and adapt each day.   For the ability to choose a spell lvl 4 at level 6 and a spell lvl 5 at level 7, no even by RAW you cannot do it. By RAW you level up during a long rest. During that "magical" long rest that give you your level up you gain all your new bonus at the same time, you cannot gain half your bonus, then do something (transfer your sorcery point into a spell slot) then gain the other half of your bonus. So when you need to choose your new spell (that technically you've been praticing during your last level) at that instance you do not have the 4th/5th level spell slot so you cannot learn a spell of that level since you DO NOT HAVE those spell slots. After your long rest, you can take a bonus action to create the spell slot, but it's too late, you already learn your spell and only next level up can you change it. And you cannot create that spell slot before the long rest since you didn't gain your extra sorcerer point yet.