Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 El_Condoro Oct 23, 2014 2:39:56	I can't see it anywhere in the PHB, but can the PC initiative order be changed after it is rolled so that a PC can elect to act later in the turn? I recall something in 4e where the character could elect to act later in a turn but I can't see similar in 5e.   A PC can ready an action so that the action occurs when the trigger happens, but I am thinking more about movement. A creature is in the way of where the PC wants to move and he wants to delay his turn until the creature has its turn and gets out of the way. I imagine this is more of an issue in battlemap games than 'theatre of the mind' games, but I thought I'd ask.   How would you rule it if there is nothing in RAW?
#2 FrogReaver Oct 23, 2014 2:51:36	To my knowledge there are no rules relating to changing initiative orders.  So per that I would say RAW doesn't allow it.     However, I think it opens up some nice tactical options for the players so I'd probably allow them to do that kind of stuff.  It can be more bookeeping than it's worth though so as long as they aren't trying to do that all the time through combat then it shouldn't be problematic.
#3 Yunru Oct 23, 2014 3:20:35	Personally to keep it simple I would let them delay their turn if they want to but only once and only before anyone takes a turn.
#4 lawrencehoy Oct 23, 2014 3:55:15	I agree with the others. Besides, just because there is no rule that states you can do it; doesn't mean you can't. There is also no rule which specifically states you can't delay your turn (lowering your initiative).   I would just rule that the character has to keep the new, lower initiative; and can't regain the higher initiative later. That is what the Ready action is for.
#5 Sorxores Oct 23, 2014 5:27:58	El_Condoro wrote:
#6 Timborama Oct 23, 2014 5:41:50	My group and I have played enough that we feel comfortable with the Delay and Ready actions that change your initiative (from previous editions), and we are going to use them with the understanding that it is, indeed, a Houserule!   But by RAW there is no Delaying, and Readying an action does not reset your initiative. This is most likely due to 5th's attempt to keep things (especially combat!) simple as possible. But since my table and I are already familiar with those rules (and are expediant in executing their implications, regardless of context) we're going to "complicate it" comfortably at our table.
#7 paulstrait Oct 23, 2014 7:13:05	GIven the movement rules, I'm not sure why delaying would ever be superior to readying an action.    Also, the "initiative order remains the same from round to round" (phb p. 188).  I would think that means that you can't delay by the RAW since no specific rule provides an exception to that.  The rules discuss the possibility of forgoing any action on your turn at all, without saying anything like "if you do this, you can act later."    You can add delaying as a houserule, but keep in mind it would interact with other rules -- effects that last "until the end of your next turn" for example, just to throw one out.  Or if you are the victim of a spell that inhibits your ability to move or take actions in some way, and that spell is a concetration spell, you could delay in the hopes that an ally could force a concentration check on the caster.  So there are a variety of cases that you'd have to consider if you want to allow delay, and I'm not really sure what is gained.
(Reply to #7) SteveMND	paulstrait wrote:
#9 OoftaMeg Oct 23, 2014 9:10:58	I'm enjoying the simplicity for now and combat seems to go faster without it. It's easy enough to add in though.
#10 Timborama Oct 23, 2014 10:37:49	To be fair, the "until end of turn" stuff is WAY easy to deal with. Not only does it not come up often (unlike 4E where this junk happened all the time), but it's usually bad stuff, and can be handled super-easily on a case-by-case basis when it DOES arise.   "I delay until after Joe's turn, so I don't re-enter the material plane before the bad guys go!" "If you try that, you'll enter the material plane and THEN delay, falling in initiative. Which would you like?"   "Aw man, I'm still stuck in a Hold Person Spell! I delay until after Joe, and since my turn ended I can make a save against the..." "If you try that you're still in a Hold Person Spell until after your turn comes up after Joe, falling in initiative. Which would you like?"   "Okay! This buff only lasts until the end of my next turn, so we need to make it count! I'm going to delay until after Joe's turn so he can give me advantage!" "If you try that, the buff wears off at the end of your initiative count, so Joe can give you advantage, but you won't have the buff. Which would you like?"   etc. etc.   (I agree RAW is a simpler way to do things, and the examples I give may "complicate" things, but it takes no more than 2-seconds to say what happens, especially if your player is doing it as a work-around. It's easier to say "Okay you delay but bad stuff still happens, good stuff wears off")
#11 Uthrac Oct 23, 2014 12:29:17	Timborama wrote:
#12 BRJN Oct 24, 2014 5:02:15	I, a Monk, would like to help the party Rogue be more effective and use his Sneak Attack early and often.  The plan is that I run over to a good cluster of targets, punch somebody out, and let the rogue snipe at whoever did not fall, with Advantage (because I'm an active combatant within 5') and therefore his Sneak Attack applies.  But the Rogue rolled better for Initiative than I did - HE is going to go first !  No Advantage; no Sneak Attack.  What to do?   If I were DM in such a situation, I would allow the PCs to change their initiative score - downwards only - so that two coordinating characters can pull off their schtick.  This only applies on Turn One.  After the fight starts, you stay where you are in the initiative order.  The catch to this is that the players must have TOLD me, before the fight, they are coordinating their plans.  Of course, Team Monster can do the same thing, too, but that may be more work than it's worth.
#13 El_Condoro Oct 24, 2014 6:24:25	I can also see a case for the players being able to set their own initiative order, such as when they know what is on the other side of the door and they agree on who attacks and moves and the order in which they will do it. This would be a home rule thing, but I wouldn't roll initiative in that case - I would set the first PC with an initiative of 40 and then down to the monsters, who would roll for initiative as normal, most likely after a surprise round. I know that the first casualty of a battle is the plan, but spending time discussing a course of action, knowing the situation, and then having the initiative roll foil the plan is not fun IMO.
#14 Grazel Oct 24, 2014 8:38:13	Delay can be tricky in 5e for the reasons mentioned. As for readying actions it's a gambit and adds to tactics choices. I would allow readying a movement based on a trigger as well not just a non-movement action.   As for the monk and rogue action the rogue could choose to ready his attack based on the monk closing on the enemies to resolve having the higher initiative and after the first round it wouldn't matter so the rogue would disadvantage himself in the long run for a one-time benefit that 5e has a method of allowing (ready action that doesn't alter overall initiative order).