Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 prestokeys Sep 08, 2014 15:20:56	Hi, I'm a computer programmer who is currently programming AD&D 5th edition in C++, and am stuck deciding what happens if a being is charmed by two different spellcasters at the same time.  Whose orders shall he obey?  If both charmers, then what happens if one charmer orders the being to attack the other charmer?  Though dungeon masters can play out these weird situations improv, unresolved situations like this cause serious bugs in computer programs unless the algorithm is established in the code.  If no such rule is established anywhere, then your opions would help a lot in my decision.  Thanks.
#2 Overpromises Sep 08, 2014 15:38:38	prestokeys wrote:
#3 prestokeys Sep 08, 2014 15:57:07	Overpromises wrote:
#4 Plaguescarred1 Sep 08, 2014 15:54:22	prestokeys wrote:
#5 UnknownMourner Sep 08, 2014 22:58:29	Charm has long had one effect in the tabletop roleplaying game and usually a much different effect in the various DnD computer games.   It is supposed to just make the NPC friendlier, resulting in an improvement in the NPC's disposition, bringing bargains, hidden info, a +X to win their love, a bonus to lie to them, that kind of stuff.   Unfortunately, in Curse of the Azure Bonds by SSI, they made it straight up mind control enslavement. Almost all computer games after repeated this error. It was wildly out of proportion to the other 1st level spells.   A problem comes up when one argues for the milder effect. Most early versions of the player's handbook had an example, repeated word-for-word, over and over in the game's history, stating "but you might convince them to 'hold off that red dragon for a turn or two'."   You can point to that and say, Aha! See it WILL fight in a suicidal situation for me!   This, however, ignores the sentences that came before the red dragon example which imply the creature does not immediatly become your war goon.   Fifth edition, thankfully, got rid of that red dragon example that plagued many editions, and now rightly says they just consider you a friendly acquaintence, i.e., like Fran in Accounting down the hall.   So there's really no need to even hash out what would happen if two casters charmed the same person. His X, where X = disposition modifier or status or whatever, just simply = "friendly" for two different people. So, Chuck and Dave can both cast Charm Person on a shop keeper or guard. It just means Chuck and Dave both get the +X or advantage or whatever it is in your mechanics. They both can get the buddy pricing, or they both can get the insider info dialogue, or he'll tell them both about the secret door, etc.    Unfortunatley, the genie is out of the bottle with many longtime players who've become conditioned to getting a turncoat spell at level 1, even though that effect isn't repeated again until 4th level spells.   I encourage you to keep it a potent out-of-combat spell for use in dialogues.
#6 2Chlorobutanal Sep 09, 2014 2:05:40	The "charmed" condition doesn't allow the "charmer" to order the victim around by default.   It simply says:   • A charmed creature can’t attack the charmer or target  the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects. • The charmer has advantage on any ability check to  interact socially with the creature.   So if two people charm the same creature, it just avoids harming both of them, and both of them have advantage to interact.  Similarly, if you charm the best friend of your enemy, he doesn't suddenly forget about his friendships.  He would most likely not attack you or his best friend, although you would have advantage on Persuasion or Deception checks to convince him to turn on his friend somehow.   Even without resorting to "conflicting magical effects," there's really no "conflict" with two charms on the same creature- just make a note that both casters have advantage on social interactions with the victim and the victim won't target either caster with attacks or harmful effects.
#7 Plaguescarred1 Sep 09, 2014 2:57:26	I assumed Prestokeys refered to a spell that actually forced a charmed creature to obey commands since charm person or simply being chamred doesn't compel the target to actually do anything.
#8 prestokeys Sep 09, 2014 14:25:03	Plaguescarred wrote:
(Reply to #8) Overpromises	prestokeys wrote:
#10 2Chlorobutanal Sep 10, 2014 0:19:05	In that case, you could follow the "Combining Magical Effects" rules mentioned previously for a simple solution:   The highest-level spellcaster's dominate spell will supercede the lower-level one.  In the case of a tie, you could let the more recently applied one supercede the older one.   If you've ever played WoW or other MMOs, it would be similar to overwriting buffs or debuffs ("A more powerful spell is active." or just overwrite the effect, depending on relative level.)