Appologies if this has already been asked and answered I tried to search and could not find anything on it.
Concentration spells require you to make a save when taking damage. (PHB page 203 Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher.)
Temporary Hit Points (PHB page 198 Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points, they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protect you from injury.)
Example 1: Warlock has 5 temporary hit points and gets hit for 3 damage, 2 temporary hit points remain.
Do you have to make a concentration save when the attack does not do enough damage to get through or use up all the temporary hit points?
Example 2: Warlock has 4 temporary hit points and suffers a critical hit for 28 damage. The temporary hit points reduces the damage to 24.
Would the Constitution save to maintain concentration be DC 12 because of the temporary hit points, or would it be a DC 14 for the total damage?
Would seem that as RAW a concentration save would be needed for any damage taken regardless of temporary hit points.
May have to house rule this one to let the temporary hit points act as a concentration buffer too.
Opinions or discussion welcome 
I'm inclined to say that the specific rule of temporary hit points (which are involved in the damage process) overrules the general rule of "damage" (which is what the specific rule of concentration references) and thus provide a buffer. I'd say that taking temporary hit points (my wife just said "why even call them hit points if they're not?") only means no save needed. Taking temporary and real hit points means only needing to save for the number of real hit points of damage which went through.
I mean, the rationale for losing concentration is shock, pain, etc. which make you "lose concentration"—if the temp HP is a buffer against that, it makes sense to mitigate the effects of the incoming damage.
I think the key there is "the damage YOU take."
If you replace every instance of "damage" in the bolded quotes with "hit point damage" it seems clearer.
You still take damage. Whether you lose THP or HP is secondary to the fact that you took damage.
Note it specifically says the damage you take, not the Hit Points you lose.
I think the THP serve as a buffer. In your second example I would say the warlock would make a DC 12 saving throw, not DC 14. The rule is not exactly clear, however, and our party warlock has asked me the same question as you before. I'd be interested in hearing what other people think on this matter.
If only lost temporary HP, you didn't take any damage.
Sure you did. Otherwise you wouldn't have lost the THP.
THP don't even factor into damage calculations, only how much health you lose from the result of that.
To clarify: Tempory hit points do not reduce the damage you take. Therefore you take damage. What does happen is the damage effects your THP first (hence why the fluff says it's a "buffer between you and damage").
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
Also, I will now provide quotes to back up my statements! *le gasp*
Basic Rules P.76: "When you have temporary hit points and take damage, the temporary hit points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your normal hit points."
You clearly take damage, all THP is effect how much HP you lose. And since concentration checks aren't done on how much HP you lose but how much damage you take...
I was about to quote the same section.
The rules are a little confusing because there is a certain amount of flavour text about THP standing "between you and damage" but the rule is actually very clear. "You take damage" leads to "you lose temporary HP" and then "you lose regular HP".
It might be interesting to compare with the Ward ability provided by the Wizard's Abjuration school, which provides an actual barrier which has its *own* HP. This *would* protect you from interruption.
People seem to go out of their way to make a streamline game harder and more confusing than it is. What seems to work for us and generally backed by twitter comments from Mearls is when looking at rule; does interpration A or B of a rule make the rule easier and more streamline with less math, if so that is the correct one.
As far as the OP the concentration check is vs damage of the hit, it doesn't matter if that damage is applied to temp hit points or not. The only thing that would change this is an ability that shares damage for example the cleric has a spell where they take half damage so if the hit was 20 the target takes 10 & the cleric takes 10 so the concentration check is vs. the 10 damage.
Archon007 wrote:
Even then, you got hit. Just because it didn't injure you doesn't make it any less startling.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
No. You're argument's based around a fallacy. Just because taking damage results in a loss of Hit Points does not mean that a loss of Hit Points is taking damage.
The rules for Temporary Hit Points specifically state you take damage. I fail to see how time and time again you can look at clearly worded rules and go "Nah, that doesn't mean that."
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
What you're looking for is damage reduction. Anything that would provide DR would reduce the DC of the concentration save. Yes, temporarty hit points "are a buffer against damage", but nowhere does it say that they reduce said damage, just act as a buffer against it and your normal HP.
People with varied skill in language argue based on varied standpoints. Difficulty in reconciling advanced concepts like word meaning in context (and that is advanced to the point that many native English speakers never master it, let alone people whose native tongue isn't English, and plenty of those folks play D&D) provide any perusal of the rules of any edition of the game by people of varying backgrounds with sticking points. It is inevitable.
The biggest arguments always revolve around concepts, and not numbers. We can all see 4d6+2 is going to give a range of 6 to 26, and median result of 16. We never really break down with the hard concepts.
But language isn't a hard concept. It's not subject to that level of precision.
I weigh in on threads with my level of expertise in English, Math, RPGs, etc. while all others do the same. The entire reason you need forums like this is to interpret the vagaries of the rules. Because for all that people want to claim that there's only one true RAW, in many cases there are linguistic blocks to stating that with the kind of certainty a table of numbers gives us. (Where, of course, we merely have to question if the numbers don't include any formulaic errors or typos. ;) )
THP aren't real HP. They represent something that can't be treated as real HP because they are clearly desribed in the rules as not being HP. We all agree that's true. The two are separate. Nobody has said "we pile all these HP into one box on the sheet and they are the same" ... (the sheet has space for THP separately even.)
Where we differ is in how we see the concepts and language interacting.
And that's fine. There's enough information in this thread for people to make the determination for themselves, no matter how they feel the various relevant rules should be interpreted as interacting:
But it is black and white. Damage is damage. So if you take damage, you make a concentration check.
Damage isn't a result of losing Hit Points, losing Hit Points is a result of damage.
Losing less Hit Points because you had Temporary Hit Points doesn't mean you took any less damage.
I understand that the concept escapes you. The post wasn't meant for you.
You know what, I don't know why I even bother with such an obvious troll. Report and move on, as they say.
Yunru wrote:
P. 203: "The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take."
The attack rolls 13 damage.
I have 5 temps.
What is the 8 number called?
If one argues 13 is the damage I take, then what's that 8 number?
P. 196: "Whenever a creature takes damage, that damage is subtracted from its hit points."
In the example above, what number got subtracted from my hit points? 8 or 13?
If the 8 number isn't the damage I take, then what is it?
UnknownMourner wrote:
WibbleNZ wrote:
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
I am going to type this word for word from the player's handbook. I know this is a bit confusing, but on page 198 it says the following:
"For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage."
The full paragraph reads:
"When you have temporary hit points and take damage, the temporary hit points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your normal hit points. For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and take 2 damage."
The way this is worded, my interpretation is this: Temporary Hit Points actually serve to REDUCE damage. In the example, it states that you take 7 damage, but instead the temporary hit points are deducted from the total damage and you take 2 instead.
So it seems that yes, temporary hit points provide a buffer for concentration.
It is not worded very clearly, like a great many things in the PHB so far, so there will probably be quite a few people asking this exact same question. But, that's what it says - 7 damage is reduced to 2 instead. Somewhat confusing wording is confusing, but here's another key part to remember:
"When you have temporary hit points and take damage, the temporary hit points are lost first, and any LEFTOVER damage carries over to your normal hit points."
The use of the word leftover there also implies that temp HP reduces damage taken. Even less clearly than the unclear example, but it's there.
Edit: I'll back my post up with a conceptual example. Armor of Agathys provides temporary HP by coating you and your gear in a thick layer of frost - implying that, when you take damage it is the frost that is destroyed first. If the attack has done nothing more than chip away a layer of frost and done no actual harm or shock to your body, then you have not experienced any pain caused by taking damage, and your concentration is not disrupted. You can literally sprint while concentrating, so even the impact of the blow itself would not be enough to distract you, considering that you are already able to concentrate through the repeated shock of your legs hitting the ground as you run.
WibbleNZ wrote:
Again, if it stated "You lose the temporary hit points and 2 hit points" - you would all be correct, and damage that only reduced total remaining temp HP would require a concentration check. It's that line right there that's the key. "You lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage." This implies what WotC's idea of Damage is, if nothing else does - damage is the loss of HP. Not THP (as it specifically states that THP and HP are separate in the description of THP) but actual HP loss.
"@JeremyECrawford If my Temporary Hit Points are 10 and I take 30 damage from an attack, what is the DC of my Concentration Check"
"The DC is 15. When temporary hit points absorb damage for you, you're still taking damage, just not to your real hit points."
The basic chain of events goes something like this:
- Opponent generates damage value
- Damage is modified by various effects
- Hit points are reduced
According to Concentration (PHB 203)
"Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitutions saving throw to maintain your concentration."
So, the question is, at what point during this timeline is the damage "taken"?
Hit Points (PHB 196)
"Whenever a creature takes damage, that damage is subtracted from its hit points."
Temporary Hit Points (PHB 198)
"Temporary hit points are not actual hit points..."
This leads me to believe that damage is "taken" like so:
- Opponent generates damage value
- Damage is modified by various effects
- Hit points are reduced (a.k.a. damage is "taken", and one must make a concentration save)
Others would argue that THP are not damage modifications, so the timeline instead would look like:
- Opponent generates damage value
- Damage is modified by various effects
- Damage is "taken" (and one must make a concentration save)
- Temporary hit points are reduced
- Hit points are reduced
At this point, what seems most clear to me is that WOTC did not anticipate this problem, and thus did not clearly spell out what their intent is. "Taking damage" is not well defined, and is used inconsistently, sometimes even within a single sentence.
Consider Temporary HIt Points (PHB 198)
"For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage."
Since you make a concentration save whenever you "take damage", one could argue that you must make one when you "take 7 damage", and then another when you "take 2 damage", which is clearly not intended. Until WOTC takes a clear stance on the issue, it's open to interpretation, and all we can do is argue about which one makes the most sense based on our own arbitrary criteria. Personally, I think that "taking damage" and "reducing hit points" should be synonymous, because that's what makes sense to me, and it has the bonus of clearing up any possible confusion and leading to a very simple timeline.
CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
Noctaem wrote: