Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Batla76 Jun 14, 2015 9:42:45	Hunter's Mark states that you can maintain your concentration on the spell for 24 hours (When cast at 5th lvl). Can you cast this spell with a remaining spell slot at the end of the day, take a long rest, and have it up still for the next 16 hours? I could mark one of the party members (probably the suspicious Rogue).    The DM side of me at first says no way, but on the other hand, my character is an Elf with "Trance", a semiconscious state of awareness and concentration seems described as a bit passive RAW   What say you?
#2 Noctaem Jun 14, 2015 10:04:29	The rules don't say you can continue concentrating while meditating via the elven racail trait.  They do say you can't while taking an extended rest.  So the answer is ETV.  Personally my question would be "what do you hope to gain from being able to concentrate in this way?".  You're putting hunter's mark on an ally (which might already not be ok with the other player) but then can't remove it unless the rogue drops to 0 hit points and you use a bonus action or you stop concentrating on the spell...    The trait entry says that you spend your time "dreaming of a sort" but that you're doing mental exercises, imo that seems to indicate that you're not supposed to be able to maintain concentration on spell just like everyone else taking an extended rest.
#3 jaelis Jun 14, 2015 11:09:38	Noctaem wrote:
#4 Angry_Steak Jun 15, 2015 7:01:05	Trance is just a reflavored sleep(power nap go!). Sleep counts as being unconscious. You can't keep your concentration while unconscious.    I can see the extended uptime being used for a Great Hunt where the Ranger spends a day or more tailing and skirmishing with an intelligent and honorable quarry, though.
#5 OoftaMeg Jun 15, 2015 7:34:22	I would rule that someone trancing (in a deep meditative state) is incapacitated while trancing. You lose concentration if you are incapacitated.
#6 jaelis Jun 15, 2015 9:39:58	I'd say its very up to the DM. The rules don't spell out if you're incapacitated while trancing, nor whether you even need to trance to take a long rest. But it does say that you're semiconcious while trancing, and the descriptions of stunned sounds like you're semiconcious then too (and incapacitated of course). So I'd rule you're incapacitated while trancing, myself. I'd let you take a long rest without sleeping/trancing, but I'd require a Con check to benefit from it.
#7 mellored Jun 16, 2015 12:41:01	I would allow it.   There's very few spells that it would actually effect.  And it's still taking your concentration slot, and your bonus actions durring combat.
#8 Kalani Jun 16, 2015 12:59:23	When envisioning an Elven Trance - think Teal'C from Stargate and his need for  kel'no'reem. The elf remains conscious and aware of their surroundings, but in a deep state of meditation in which they cannot concentrate on anything else. Both races (Elves and Jaffa) require deep meditative states in order to gain the benefits of sleep, but they don't actually sleep
#9 Noctaem Jun 16, 2015 17:16:39	Kalani wrote:
#10 Orethalion Jun 16, 2015 17:49:45	I personally would rule against it.  Not because you are so deeply asleep that you can't concentrate on it, but because if you are concentrating on it, you are not focusing your mind on the elven trance to the point of deep meditation so the trance never happens.  You would be able to get one or the other in my game, but not both.
#11 ZHDarkstar Jun 16, 2015 18:35:06	Slightly related question, can you maintain concentration during a short rest? I'm inclined to say yes, but I don't have time to sift through my books atm. Otherwise, it'd render the increased duration of Hex pointless for a Warlock in most cases.
#12 Noctaem Jun 16, 2015 18:41:36	ZHDarkstar wrote:
#13 Kalani Jun 17, 2015 0:18:53	Noctaem wrote:
(Reply to #13) Yunru	Kalani wrote:
#15 Saeviomagy Jun 22, 2015 19:35:59	Unless I've missed something, taking a long rest by itself does not end concentration. You do not need to sleep during a long rest, and concentration only has 3 conditions which end it involuntarily - concentrating on another spell, taking damage or being incapacitated.   Sleeping probably does end concentration, if you regard sleeping as being unconscious (and therefore incapacitated). For reference, this is what the spell sleep uses - targets become unconscious.   Trancing certainly does not, because you are not incapacitated during trance.   In terms of game balance, I would be inclined to rule that concentration can be maintained through sleep rather than ruling that trance ends concentration. There's only a few spells that it affects, and it gives some meaning to their higher level versions. At present, elves and non elves alike can perform this trick simply by not sleeping that night, and then having an argument with their DM about whatever wierd rule the DM tries to use to stop it.
#16 Wuzzard Jun 22, 2015 19:50:02	This DM would call shenanigans on any request to have concentration extend for that duration. I'm not saying the rules back me up, it just seems rediculous, disingenuous and a blatant attempt to rules-lawyer a loophole.
#17 Saeviomagy Jun 22, 2015 20:20:34	Oh no! They might save a third level spell slot if they didn't use a 5th level one for a whole day!   I think my main issue with the whole scenario is that it would involve them either  a) Deciding at some arbitrary point in time to burn their 5th level slot in order to 'save' it for tomorrow. b) Casting 5th level hunters mark at some non-foe (like a squirrel) at the end of the day.   Remember - you have to cast mark/hex on a target, and can then reassign it later. You can't just cast it without a target. Scenario a has some risk, while scenario b is kind of bag-of-ratsing. And with hex either scenario means you've got a good chance of not getting mileage out of the disadvantage on checks part of the spell.   I think this all comes down to flaws in the spell itself. It seems obvious they wanted to replicate the previous edition's mechanics, but for some reason chose to give out spells instead of x/day class abilities.
#18 Valen_Dreth Jun 22, 2015 22:48:54	It seems that there is a lot of back and forth on whether concentration can be maintained through a long rest. It really seems to be subject to how the DM in question chooses to interpret the physiological and psychological burden of both meditating and concentrating simultaneously. Also, just how lenient a DM feels he or she should be.   One point of clarification though. The PHB does state explicitly that a character sleeps during a long rest for 6 of the 8 hours to gain the benefit of the long rest. The racial ability 'trance' is, in fact, overwriting the sleep requirement. The language regarding sleep being a requirement of a long rest is somewhat vague, so I quote: "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours."  The wording is clumsy, and skimming this sentence can lend one to believe that it is allowing sleep or light activity for the entire period of the rest. In fact, the intent of the last half of this sentence is to place a two hour limit on all light activities not just 'standing watch'.   Think of it this way: If you did not have to sleep during a short rest or a long rest, then just when is it in the game rules that a creature is required to sleep to keep from slipping into exhaustion, madness, coma, and death? The whole intent of the long rest is to provide this time at the end of a natural 24 hour cycle to recover and 'rest' appropriately like all normal biological creatures must. That would be either 4 hours of meditation, or 6 hours of sleep. Why, after being awake for 32 hours straight, should you be allowed to recover all your hp, spells, and daily abilities and then be just fine to hop up  and continue fighting and exerting yourself indefinately? Just because you spent the last 8 hours diddling around in the camp fire with a stick and listening to crickets? You are still sleep deprived at this point and at a severe point of exhaustion. Constitution checks should abound at the very least, to avoid falling into deep levels of exhaustion if not outright unconciousness. If long rests did not require sleep, then what rules are in place that require PCs to sleep?
#19 mellored Jun 23, 2015 5:10:13	Saeviomagy wrote:
#20 Vivaldi Jun 23, 2015 5:55:29	Doesn't being alseep mean that you're incapacitated?  Or are a few of you actually claiming that no one sleeps at all in 5e "because there's no need"?
(Reply to #20) OoftaMeg	Vivaldi wrote:
#22 mellored Jun 23, 2015 6:14:24	Vivaldi wrote:
(Reply to #22) OoftaMeg	mellored wrote:
#24 mellored Jun 23, 2015 6:55:21	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #24) OoftaMeg	mellored wrote: