Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Crimlet Jun 18, 2015 14:33:10	So I think I have been playing wrong since some people in the Create Bonfire thread say it's magical. Some people say it doesn't matter, but I don't see how. It seems to matter alot.   I have been using both spells together. Cast Create Bonfire. Use Control Flames to control it. But since the bonfire is magical, I'm not supposed to use Control Flames on it? Why not make Control Flames work on any type of flame magical or nonmagical so that it will work with Create Bonfire?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 18, 2015 14:54:10	Crimlet wrote:
#3 Crimlet Jun 19, 2015 9:41:26	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 19, 2015 9:48:30	That is correct; it is core created and sustained by Magic, and Control Flames won't work on it.
(Reply to #3) OoftaMeg	Crimlet wrote:
#6 Lilika Jun 19, 2015 19:10:12	My vote is that the fire conjured by Create Bonfire isn't considered magical fire because it doesn't say "magical fire" in its discription.
#7 RCanine Jun 20, 2015 22:00:38	Here's how I determine if a fire is magical: was magic used to create it? If yes, then yes it is magical.   Or another way: could this fire be created in an antimagic zone? If no, then yes, it is magical.   Create bonfire fails both of those tests. It's likely that the "nonmagical flame" text in control flames was put there specifically because of the spell immediately above it in the text. Control flames already has the most damage potential of any cantrip; allowing you to make the flame spread would make it better than most 1st and second-level spells too.
#8 Razintarr Jun 21, 2015 23:25:13	I don't think it should work either.    My reasoning is that control flames is limited to non-magical flames to prevent it from augmenting or diminishing other fire-spells or creatures. A wall of fire can't be expanded by 5' per casting of the cantrip, nor can control flames create a path through one by extinguishing a 5-foot cube of it. Nor can it make a hole in that fire elemental.   What you've probably been doing is casting the create bonfire and then using control flames cantrips to expand the area 5' each round. That's pushing the spell well beyond its limits. I think the limit to non-magical flames is intended to stop that increase in power of being possible.
#9 Wuzzard Jun 23, 2015 7:27:08	I'd say that the fire produced by a spell that already controls its duration is already being controlled by magic, regardless if the actual manifestation of the fire is actual fire or not, and this prohibits it being controlled by a cantrip in addition.   However, if the original fire spell's fire is allowed to spread, due to conditions and DM reasoning, etc, then you should be able to control those additional flames that are not part of the control of the original spell.