Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 boojumbunn Jul 15, 2014 1:38:58	Well, I just finished downloading the basic rules and I am hoping the actual players book (or dmg) has expanded crafting/tool rules.   Does any one know if:   1.  In the basic rules the only class that starts with tools is theives and they get picks, not artisen tools.  Will there be a way in the full rules to take proficiency with artisen tools or will our adventurers only be trained in adventuring from their wee ages (so the fighter your playing wasn't trained in the smithy, instead your smith father put a sword in your hand at the age of 10 and taught you to kill people)?   2.  In the basic rules you can weave 10 blankets a day but it takes 10 days to make a 50gp platinum ring.   Will there be expanded crafting rules/costs in the players bookmor dmg?  Or even world book?   3.  The basic rules says it costs half the purchase cost of an item in materials and that treasure sells for half cost.  Are there expanded rules for selling goods being planned or will the selling treasure rules be used for selling the things you make?   If you get your hands on new treasure (like from a store or caravan) would it also sell at the newly crafted price or would it sell at the half price?      Yes, I know that each GM could make up their own rules, but I am hoping to discover if this is going to be covered in the main books since I know the basic rules are probably leaving a lot out.                     Boojum
#2 RustedKitsune Jul 15, 2014 2:56:47	1: Some backgrounds offer tool proficiencies. Personally, I would give a character that doesn't start with a tool proficiency one of their choice. 2: I doubt there will be expanded rules. I've only noticed them in previous editions when they were homebrewed in (and some of the homebrews were published!). Although you got the times wrong - you can craft 20 blankets a day, and it will take 25 days to make a platinum ring 3: Again, I doubt it. D&D has always lacked economic stuff like this, with the rules being concerned with a minimum of book-keeping and an eye towards balancing the gold gains. If you need some rules now for your game, I have some homebrew basic rules for this stuff over here: Amber's Economic Help Thread I can try to whip up some expanded/realistic crafting rules, but they'll add additional book-keeping.
#3 boojumbunn Jul 15, 2014 7:18:10	Thanks Kitsune,  I'll go back over the backgrounds again.     2.  That's disappointing.   3.  If not then I hope they change their mind.  I don't want to have to generate my own economic system again and have to keep it and several other new systems straight in my head.  At a certain point it's just easier to not update systems.            Boojum
#4 Sailing_Pirate_Ryan Jul 15, 2014 10:57:12	If the DMG doesn't include an option for more elaborate economic rules, then it'd be fertile territory for a 3PP to fill the gap. Especially now that Downtime is  a recognized part of the rules.
#5 boojumbunn Jul 15, 2014 12:24:21	Only if the 3rd party tools support the 3PP information...   Then that would be nice.                       Boojum
(Reply to #3) Shadewyn	boojumbunn wrote:
#7 boojumbunn Jul 15, 2014 16:28:35	Shadewyn wrote:
#8 Caliburn101. Jul 16, 2014 6:25:02	@ OP   1. Yes - downtime rules will allow you to train up on tool proficiencies (and more besides...)
#9 Sailing_Pirate_Ryan Jul 16, 2014 10:52:36	While I think there needs to be more realistic crafting rules than what we have now, I don't think most players want crafting to be as profitable as adventuring. For me, I'm mainly concerned with PCs crafting new items out of exotic materials (mithral, adamantine, dragon hide, glassteel, etc) that they may find during their adventuring. It's something that many players will want to do, so the rules for doing so should ave been given more thought and development than they (apparently!) were.
#10 Be3Al2 Jul 16, 2014 14:18:04	I think that crafting items in order to sell for profit mostly falls under "Practicing a profession" rather than "Crafting an item". Crafting items to me seems more like a way to get things at half price when there should be a few weeks off in game.
#11 boojumbunn Jul 17, 2014 7:34:56	Well, it looks like while there has been no official word that dev conversations have indicated that the crafting system is not going to fulfill the needs of my gaming group.   I'll keep an eye on it just in case.
#12 h347h50 Jul 17, 2014 8:21:29	boojumbunn wrote:
#13 boojumbunn Jul 17, 2014 9:58:53	Absolutely they can release an economy/crafting/expansion book...  but at a certain point the question becomes what are they giving me that 2nd, 3.5, 3.75, and 4e doesn't provide me, because for those systems they have all the races, classes, and world books that I like to both play and run.   Heck, I OWN all those books.   *giggle*  I have multiple versions of the world books, like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, going back to 2nd Edition.   The new system takes away all those races and classes and will eventually include them again....   but what I really want from the new system was more stuff for my long term campaigns with rules for economy, crafting, homes, etc.    So I'll withold from buying for right now until they start including them and just keep an eye on the game system.  I'll probably get the players book for pickup games, but not worry about running at the beginning.                                                                                                             Boojum the brown bunny
(Reply to #7) Shadewyn	boojumbunn wrote:
#15 RustedKitsune Jul 17, 2014 19:35:46	Did somebody mention MMO economies? Would you like to go look at the economy of EVE Online, which is almost entirely supplied and run by the efforts of players? Because I'm not discussing that subject here - well, I'm not. Somebody else can though.
(Reply to #15) Be3Al2	RustedKitsune wrote:
#17 Shadewyn Jul 18, 2014 13:41:24	Actually before the explosion of diku MUDs which EQ cloned and then WoW cloned EQ and then the world cloned WoW ... There was a game called Ultimate Online.  There were several economic research papers written on it as a closed economy model and how player interaction changed values.    Upshot was was no game economy was "realistic" as player rewards outstripped items to buy always causing inflation.     In D&D the classic item valuation of "ye olde magic item shop" never takes that into account which is why gear that can be bought , WILL be bought and the power curve always falls out of balance as a result.    Even something as as stupid as allowing potions to be bought in a game world where players have nothing else to buy means that every mid to high level combat becomes  balanced around chain potion chugging players   you are far better off as a DM banning the shops and resolving each request for an item as a specific quest or favor from an NPC, and then relegate grog are the blacksmith player to hand waving crafting items in downtime for no real game effect ( doesn't anyone remember craft magic item feats and how players would power game that a few editions back?)