Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Thank_Dog Sep 10, 2014 15:22:01	I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but given how many times I've thought a rule was obvious only to have people question it, I figured I should probably get some other perspectives on it.   Basically, if you have a bonus attack action, let's say from the War cleric domain feature, you couldn't attack with a crossbow and then attack again in the same turn with the bonus action, could you?
#2 Undrhil Sep 10, 2014 15:45:37	Well, generally, if you have something that says you can spend a bonus action to make another Attack action, that can be made with any weapon.  Only if that something gives a limitation, does a limitation exist.  For example, two weapon fighting says that if you make a melee attack with a light weapon, you can make a second attack as a bonus action with another light weapon in your off-hand.  In that case, making an attack with a crossbow would not allow you to make a second attack as a bonus action.   However, at level 5, the fighter gets the ability to make another attack action on their turn.  In that case, the fighter can use whatever weapon they want to make the first and second attack actions.
#3 obsid Sep 10, 2014 17:27:39	I think what he is asking about is because the crossbow has the loaded property, you can only fire "one piece of ammunication from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction."  Now I read that to mean that you can only fire once per action, once per bonus action and once per reaction.  Its possible to interpret it that you get to fire it once per "action, bonus action, or reaction" and once you have used your one crossbow fire that turn, thats all you get.  In my interpration all your are limited from doing is using say the figher multi-attack ability to use your attack action to fire twice.
#4 pukunui Sep 10, 2014 17:35:55	Ordinarily, you would not be able to make multiple attacks with a crossbow in the same round. That is what the Crossbow Expert feat is for, since it lets you ignore the "loading" quality of crossbows.   My question is: would Crossbow Expert also let you dual-wield hand crossbows like a Diablo 3 demon hunter? It seems to suggest you could. In addition to being able to ignore the loading quality, when you use the Attack action and make an "attack with a one-handed weapon" (which a hand crossbow is), you can use your bonus action to make an attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding. If you also have Extra Attack, you could potentially make three attacks in one round while two wielding hand crossbows. If you went fighter, you'd eventually be able to make lots of extra attacks with those hand crossbows, which is getting closer to the whole "use a crossbow like a machine gun" schtick that the demon hunter has.
(Reply to #4) obsid	pukunui wrote:
#6 pukunui Sep 10, 2014 18:44:10	obsid wrote:
#7 TrustTymora Sep 10, 2014 19:37:57	pukunui wrote:
#8 pukunui Sep 10, 2014 20:30:55	Actually, you make a fair point. It doesn't say "once per round" it says once "per attack action, bonus action, or reaction" basically. I guess what that means is that a fighter wouldn't be able to make multiple attacks using the same crossbow via Extra Attack, and a ranger wouldn't be able to use volley with a crossbow ... without the Crossbow Expert feat. But if either the fighter or the ranger fires the crossbow as part of the Attack action, I suppose they could fire it again if they get another attack via a bonus action (but if they were somehow able to get multiple attacks from a single bonus action - not sure how you'd do that but if it were possible, you'd still only be able to make one bonus action attack with a crossbow without the feat).   Does that make more sense?
(Reply to #8) TrustTymora	Yes correct, I think that is what the OP is asking.    Can the language be interpreted:   A character can fire a crossbow as an action (once), could fire it with a bonus action (once), and could fire it using his reaction (once) - battle master uses Commander's Strike. So in total 3 times for the round but never more than once per action, bonus action, or reaction.   The Crossbow Expert feat lets you fire as many times in any action as you want - assuming some way of achieving multiple shots for the action, bonus action, or reaction being used. In addition, the feat removes disadvantage when hostile creatures are within 5 feet and gives a situational feature if hand crossbow is used.   The OP gives the example of the War Priest Cleric being able to pull this off and there might be some others but overall I don't see a problem with it given the number of times that it is going to come into play. I look to allow things unless it is very clearly abusive - which at the moment I don't see this being. After all the Cleric has a cool war domain feature that can be used 3 maybe 4 times for the day why not let him fire his crossbow twice on those occasions if that is what makes the character awesome for the player.....