Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 5:32:22	Hey people,   My game have the following problem: 1.The players have access to a high AC easily with equips and multiclass. 2. Same CR monster do not scratch players, only in large numbers.  3. Large number of monsters slows the pace of the fight. 4. There is no such thing as flat-footed or touch AC to balance this. 5. I tried Monster of higher CR, but they generally have a ton of HP and low AC. 6. Even so, the monster hits only one in 5. When they do, they do a ton of damage that almost kill the players. What can I do to solve this? I can only create exciting battles using humanoids with equipaments, but i need to use monsters to proceed with the lore. Someone with same problems here?
#2 Noctaem Jun 02, 2015 5:40:39	Yep, it's rocket tag.
#3 Rya.Reisender Jun 02, 2015 5:56:03	Why can't battles be exciting when there is a risk to be instantly drop unconscious on a hit? I mean unless you are only playing with one or two PCs, then it's kind of frustrating I guess.   If you don't like the way 5e plays, you could make a houserule that doubles the hit chance and halves the damage.
#4 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 6:02:11	Noctaem wrote:
#5 Noctaem Jun 02, 2015 6:09:47	WillianDalboni wrote:
#6 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 6:14:57	Rya.Reisender wrote:
#7 TheCriticalFail Jun 02, 2015 6:15:42	... it sounds like you're relying too much on straight up confrontations and "number battles" where all that matters is AC, hit chance and damage. Don't try and counteract them by just chucking in more and more monsters lower level, or skipping to monsters with high damage. Instead vary the scenario, add in enemy mages and archers, have them use traps and environment, use creatures such as bulletts that force  players to vary their playstyle, or use monsters that attack with saving throw abilities rather than vs AC.   Basically, pick higher CR creatures that rely on interesting abilities that provoke status conditions and the like vs saving throws without requiring a hit. Have your players go up against a front line of tough enemies while archers flank them and whittle them down. Have enemies use guerilla tactics and move out, engage and then instantly disengage again before running and leading them into traps... so on so on.   It sounds to me like your entire group has built towards high AC. However whether they've done that through taking dwarf or multiclassing or any other way... it comes with disadvantages as well. Play around a little more with your encounters, imagine what tactics or what type of battle might be interesting, fun and stretch your players and things will often lead on from there.
#8 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 6:17:49	Noctaem wrote:
#9 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 02, 2015 6:19:00	WillianDalboni wrote:
#10 Noctaem Jun 02, 2015 6:20:47	WillianDalboni wrote:
#11 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 6:22:13	TheCriticalFail wrote:
(Reply to #4) danyc	Some actual specifics might be useful. Are they all using heavy armor and shields? Are you giving out magic armor?   CR 4-6 monsters have attack bonuses in the +6 to +8 range, usually, which will hit ACs 17-21 a lot more than 'one in five.'
#13 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 7:08:30	danyc wrote:
#14 mellored Jun 02, 2015 7:23:32	I suggest...   1: Double all HP (for both sides), and number hit dice. 2: Double the number of short rest abilities (ki, channel divinity, dragon breath, second wind, ect...) 3: Double the number of long rest abilities (spell slots, lay on hands, ect...).     That keeps the overall balance pretty close and streches out combat so that 1 roll isn't make or break. Of course, it streaches out combat, so it takes longer.
#15 bawylie Jun 02, 2015 7:36:27	1.) More monsters/enemies, with LOWER CRs.    Some of the monsters "help" the ones that hit harder. Thus the ones that hit harder have Advantage on their attack rolls.    2.) Design encounters where the threat is to the PC's goals and desires, not their bodily health.  •The trolls have taken the bridge and threaten to destroy it unless their demands are met.  •A manticore has begun hunting the villagers; can you drive it off before your home is destroyed? •The evil wizard is opening a Starbucks ACROSS FROM ANOTHER STARBUCKS! Your friend faces economic devastation at his spouse's latte addiction.
#16 SadisticLeprechaun Jun 02, 2015 7:37:13	Alternatively, perhaps giving the critters their proficiency bonus to AC? Or half of it? It might be a standardized way to raise the AC of monsters without doubling HP. Doubling HP seems to being down the effectiveness of things . . I am not a math guy too too much, so hard to really say.
(Reply to #13) danyc	WillianDalboni wrote:
#18 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 8:12:30	mellored wrote:
#19 reddaemon Jun 02, 2015 9:22:49	How I would challenge your party is to look for more creatures that have resistance/immunity to weapons.  Does everyone have magic weapons?  Golems, Elementals, Lycanthropes are good challenges if not everyone has magic weapons.  Don't be afraid to use a few swarms here and there.  They have resistance to weapon damage that isn't bypassed by magic weapons.  Devils make a good challenge for your spellcasters because they all have magic resistance (so do Golems and a number of other things like some demons).     Also, never underestimate the power of a Darkness spell mixed in with Demons and Devils(most demons and devils have truesight, blindsight, or can otherwise see through magical darkness).  The possibilities are endless.  What level is your party?   Edit:  I did a quick skim of the Monster Manual.  Take a look at Yugolths.  They will probably present the greatest challenge for your party.  They have magic resistance, resistance to nonmagical weapon damage as well as resistance/immunity to several types of energy damage.  They also boast some powerful spells (like at-will darkness and dispel magic for their daylight spell muahahaha).  Also, note that they all have truesight or blindsight and are generally not pushovers when it comes to AC, HP, and damage output.   Oh god.... I just realized that Yugoloths have a fly speed of 60 and can teleport before or after making an attack.... so they can fly up to your melee guys, attack and then teleport 60 feet away from them.... the only way your melee will ever hit them is if your spellcasters cast fly on them or if they ready an action to attack when it comes in range (in which case they won't get Extra Attack, they'll only get to make 1 attack.... Yugoloths look like the ultimate badass monsters to throw at just about any party that needs to be knocked down a couple of pegs.
#20 mellored Jun 02, 2015 9:17:42	WillianDalboni wrote:
#21 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 9:31:34	bawylie wrote:
#22 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 9:36:53	reddaemon wrote:
#23 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 9:43:55	mellored wrote:
#24 AndyDay Jun 02, 2015 9:42:01	It sounds like luck is the issue here. The players should be hit a lot more. Use the mob attack rules to even out the probability. Heck you could even do this for big bad guys.
#25 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 02, 2015 9:44:49	Try refluffing monsters into similar creatures that do 50%-75% of the damage, but twice the number of attacks. Same average damage, but less spikiness. A Barbarian 5 Hill Giant with Extra Attack and Rage  instead of a Fire Giant as an example(not 100% sure that matches up, just off the top of my head as an example) This doesn't mean you build a Barbarian 5 Hill Giant, it means you end up with a Fire Giant without resistance to fire, but instead does Hill Giant damage twice.
#26 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 9:45:25	AndyDay wrote:
#27 WillianDalboni Jun 02, 2015 10:15:24	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#28 Xeviat-DM Jun 02, 2015 11:02:40	Looking at the monster builder guidelines, it seems clear that, compared to the PCs, the monsters have very high HP and low AC, and very high damage and low attack. They also increase by 15 HP each level, and by 6 damage each level. Now, this isn't meant to perfectly keep up with the PCs (if you test the CR on PCs, a level 20 ends up around 13 if it isn't heavily optimized), as the CRs are meant for 4 PCs vs. 1 monster.   I absolutely love the fluff of the monster manual; it's a great read, more entertaining than the 4E MM was. But I'm finding the stats of the monsters to be boring. I'm starting on a mass analysis of PC capabilities and am going to take a stab at some tweeks to see if a new balance can be achieved. I love the PCs (except their HP) in this edition, so I want to keep them intact.
#29 Greenstone.Walker Jun 02, 2015 15:54:39	bawylie wrote:
#30 OGRE1984 Jun 02, 2015 17:38:20	use tactics. such as flanking giving advantage, help other action gives advantage.  high AC? try to grapple, trip, disarm, & push/pull. these are opposed ability checks. prone condition gives advantage to enemy melee attacks. i had a gargoyle attack two party members in dark city streets they hurt it pretty badly, so it grabbed the barbarian and flew up [ i modified speed by encumberance rules] barbarians turn he broke free from grab and fell 30'. he did so fearing being dropped from higher. the gargoyle had tried some hit and run but failed its rolls.