Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lipfi Aug 25, 2014 18:42:56	Both Devil's Sight invocation and Darkness spell are available to Warlock lvl 3. Warlock can cast Darkness on his weapon and have advantage on his every attack on creatures without Blindsight/True Vision and evrey such creature would have disadvantage on every attack against warlock. Add Great Weapon Master, advantage approximately cancel -5 penalty and it's +10 damage on every attack. I won't even mention multiclass with fighter.
#2 onceMoreIntoBreech Aug 25, 2014 18:56:12	Lipfi wrote:
#3 Lipfi Aug 25, 2014 19:05:29	I can't find any feature that is enabling them to see in magical darkness.
(Reply to #3) onceMoreIntoBreech	Lipfi wrote:
#5 Kalani Aug 25, 2014 19:11:31	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #5) onceMoreIntoBreech	Kalani wrote:
#7 Lipfi Aug 26, 2014 3:54:59	Seeing in magical darkness is IMHO OP  if you can do it without expanding high level spell.
#8 Danny_Montanny Aug 25, 2014 19:23:49	Is it pretty cool, effective, and work like you say? Yes. Will it be a good tactic for every combat? No. Just because you can do something, it doesn't me that's what  you should do. Should a Barbarian rage every fight? Should a Druid wildshape? Should the Wizard cast Wall of Force around you and the big bad to duke it out in the cage match of the century?
#9 Lipfi Aug 25, 2014 19:28:50	I think everyone is supposed to always do their best, point is not to count on someone's self restraint to not do OP things, OP things simply should not be allowed by rules.
#10 Kalani Aug 25, 2014 19:28:53	lol...Cage Matches. I never considered that particular usef for Wall of Force
#11 Jay_Ibero_911 Aug 25, 2014 19:35:50	A party where everyone takes at least a 3 level dip in warlock could be pretty tactically interesting, especially depending on how they diversify after that. You'd have enough Darknesses that refresh on short rest that even if you rarely get one, someone in the party should always be able to pop one. Go team Dark! Of course easily defeated by area and save based effects.
#12 IxidorRS Aug 25, 2014 19:49:52	It only goes out 15'. It doesn't have to ruin your parties time. you can sit in the back in your darkness and cast Eldritch Blast Against any caster, they'd just target the darkness with a save spell and hope it breaks concentration. Non-casters... well, that's tougher. They should hope they have    Oh, against casters, combine it with The Archfey's  Misty Escape. Caster does actually damage you? Teleport and turn invisible. Your darkness is gone but at least you're still hard to hit until your next turn. This will only work if those casters go with damage spells. If they try to incapacitate you somehow, well, no fun.   It's a pretty good set of traits. Is it OP? Eh. maybe. Warlock's do get spell slots back after short rests, so in some parties this could be pretty amazing. i'm surprised the duration is 10 minutes and not 1 minute. Now, if only there was a way to cast it as a bonus action...
(Reply to #9) onceMoreIntoBreech	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #12) Danny_Montanny	IxidorRS wrote:
#15 Kalani Aug 25, 2014 20:12:42	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#16 Jay_Ibero_911 Aug 25, 2014 20:22:08	Kalani wrote:
#17 Kalani Aug 25, 2014 21:01:57	I happily stand corrected. I somehow must have glazed over that part when I read the darkness description.... I actually wondered about why that clause was "removed" this edition when it was present in prior editions.   As to how I completely overlooked an entire paragraph - I have no idea. Chalk it up to momentary dyslexia or something.
#18 Rhenny Aug 25, 2014 21:22:50	Fireball the darkness!
#19 Kalani Aug 25, 2014 21:40:26	Rhenny wrote:
(Reply to #17) reddaemon	Kalani wrote:
#21 obsid Aug 25, 2014 23:18:40	I can just see the anchent red dragon, going "ah look, isnt that warlock being cute.... 90 foot cone dc 24 dex save to take half of 26d6 damage... oh look there he is! (or what is left of him)"   even a wyrmling (CR 4) can do a 7d6 in a 15 foot cone, plenty to burn the warlock out of the darkness.   Not all NPCs are going to have splash like that, but still it can be dealt with (and likely to make the enemy mad enough to target the warlock)..
#22 Plaguescarred1 Aug 26, 2014 2:42:59	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#23 Mind_Flayer_Monk Aug 26, 2014 2:58:26	You need some wild shape and Giant Spiders (or Rangers) in the mix with that magical darkness.   You could also prep a 3rd level Darkness spell to beat the 3rd level Continual Flame-its not like you have anything else to concentrate on.   "Don't forget that lots of things ignore it (area spells/traps, auras, breath weapons, creatures without sight, canceling spells, etc). Plus it still doesn't prevent you from being attacked. So as our warlock discovered it's too much of a hassle to use most of the time and it takes concentration which means the loss of other beneficial spells (hex, faerie fire, etc)."   Even with all this, it is an incredible SHTF mechanic.
#24 Psikerlord Aug 26, 2014 3:05:39	Plaguescarred wrote:
(Reply to #23) Fenstrider	Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
#26 Plaguescarred1 Aug 26, 2014 3:16:41	Psikerlord wrote:
(Reply to #25) Mind_Flayer_Monk	Fenstrider wrote:
(Reply to #27) Fenstrider	Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
#29 Lipfi Aug 26, 2014 4:09:35	Your allies have disadvantage attacking enemies in darkness but they also have advantage if they are in darkness too, becouse they aren't seen by enemy, so these two CANCEL each other.
#30 Lipfi Aug 26, 2014 4:01:11	P.S. I am not saying this combo can't be stopped but that is realy hard. Big number of warlocks will take War Caster and they will have adv on Con saves. With transmutation stone u can get proficiency in con saves and with +5 modifier to Con u would nead to take 50 dmg on average to break your concentration.
#31 Mephi1234 Aug 26, 2014 4:10:35	Enemy launches AoE at the darkness.    Warlock fails its Concentration check.     Darkness falls, light returns.   Game on.    Seriously.   Darkness + Devil's Sight seems really good,  but you have to realize that you're also losing out on important things.   You can't run Hex, for example, with Darkness, or any other buff.   Any time you do get hit, you have to make a Concentration check.    There's lots of ways to consistantly get advantage in combat.    Strength based hexblades are actually a bit hard to pull off, requiring MAD, feats, magic items and/or multiclassing.
(Reply to #30) Lipfi	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #29) Fenstrider	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #31) 2Chlorobutanal	Mephi1234 wrote:
#35 Lipfi Aug 26, 2014 4:42:58	@Fenstrider So you're saying me that it is not OP because dm can make every encounter around the warlock's power so that he will be seen in darkness with blindsight or something similar?
#36 Psikerlord Aug 26, 2014 5:07:48	Fenstrider wrote:
(Reply to #35) Fenstrider	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #33) yakuba	Fenstrider wrote:
#39 Danny_Montanny Aug 26, 2014 5:21:40	It's just another tool in your arsenal. You have plenty others that work just as well. Just like any other strategy, it's situational. If this is the basis of your entire build, then you're gonna be sadly disappointed.
#40 Jay_Ibero_911 Aug 26, 2014 6:18:03	For what it's worth, ONLY Daylight and Sunburst actually dispel darkness. Magical light spells of 3rd level and higher can illuminate the darkness, but won't dispel it, so you just have to get out of their area. If you get targetted by a 3rd level or higher faerie fire, you would glow for the 1 minute it lasts unless you can break the caster's concentration on faerie fire before you lose concentration on darkness. Eldritch Blast is great for breaking concentration since it is separate attacks that each will for a con save. Continual Flame is touch range, so easy to run away from and won't disple darkness either.
#41 mellored Aug 26, 2014 6:21:52	Warlocks: We cast darkness and you can't touch us!   Monsters: I cast fireball, and back around the corner.
#42 Kalani Aug 26, 2014 7:57:58	Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
#43 Mechatarrasque Aug 26, 2014 8:12:15	Kalani wrote:
#44 onceMoreIntoBreech Aug 26, 2014 8:12:53	I'm of the opinion that OP is tilting at windmills on this one. Is the purpose here to convince everyone that Warlocks are broken and need to be nerfed? It sure seems like they aren't actually broken. Most of us don't live in a culture that accepts the premise that being wrong is okay though.   It's possible to not think of everything. It's possible to make a conclusion based on incomplete data/information. It's possible to be wrong and that doesn't say anything about anyone's character. If one scenario plays out in a way that seems overpowered, while other scenarios play out differently, then perhaps the thing that seemed overpowered isn't. There are a great many extremely powerful combinations in 5e that are only circumstantially viable or powerful. The Warlock Devil's Sight ability is one of them. There have been multiple situations outlined by multiple posters here that show situations where and how the combination of Devil's Sight and Darkness doesn't work. I think the evidence points to a clear conclusion.   Do we want to keep arguing the point for funsies anyway? I don't mind if everyone continues; this is kind of fun to read.
(Reply to #42) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
(Reply to #45) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #46) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #47) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #48) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #49) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #50) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #51) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #52) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #44) Mind_Flayer_Monk	onceMoreIntoBreech wrote:
(Reply to #53) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #55) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #56) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #56) KarlB	Hey folks ... I think some of you may be missing one very critical fact here.   Warlocks don't get the standard progression of spell slots that other casters get. Their pact magic determines what spell slot is used when casting the spell, and CAPS at 5th level. They do get access to levels 6 through 9, but only one spell each, and only specific spells. So anyone casting a light generating spells in a 6th level slot or higher is *guaranteed* to break even a 20th level Warlock's Darkness.   Obviously, the rules change a bit if you are multiclassing heavily into a different caster class as those get access to higher level slots at 11th, 13th, 15th, and 17th level.   That being said, I'm not sure Darkness scales. It says it only nullifies 2nd level spells or lower. It doesn't say anything different about it when cast at higher slots. Generally speaking, spells that are 'better' in higher slots have that written in their spell descriptions. So basically, RAW says light spells cast at 2nd level or lower, and that's all we know. We don't actually know what the intention is, so your DM may rule differently. What casting it at higher levels DOES help with is protection from Dispel Magic.
#59 Haytam Aug 26, 2014 11:25:05	This combo was my favourite in 3.5. I used that and spider climb for the laughs. Attack in the dark from above. Also,instead of going fighter,i would rather go rogue,and sneak attack for effect. I played lots of warlock/rogue/fighter mc in 3.5 and it was a blast despite warlock being fairly weak class. Warlock was and is fun class to play. Devil's sight+ darkness combo is very usefull. Can't wait to try new warlock in game,since from what i read,it is buffed up fair bit from 3.5 version.
#60 Chaosmancer Aug 26, 2014 12:47:10	I love the flavor of it, even if it isn't as OP as it might first appear. Make them pact of the blade and flavor the weapon being made of shadows. All people see is a patch of darkness fly up, sounds of fighting and then it moves away leaving a dead body... I totally need to make this a NPC assassin   A side note on Darkness. Am I the only one who finds it odd that there is no way to counter the Daylight and Sunburst spells with higher-level darkness? I can understand that Light spells should trump dark, but I'd like at least an opposed roll at higher level castings or something so powerful forces of darkness can still blind the PC's
(Reply to #57) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #61) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#63 Kalani Aug 26, 2014 21:44:07	IMHO, unless the spell specifically states it creates dim or bright light - it is not a source of magical light. Fireballs do not shed light by RAW (although you are welcome to houserule otherwise), neither does produce flame, or flaming sphere. Spells do what they say on the tin. If light is not part of their spell effects, they are not magical light and have no effect on the darkness spell (or vice versa).
#64 kalil Aug 26, 2014 21:50:04	The sun is the physical manifestation of a diety, and the source of all sun domain spells. Surely sun light is magical? Sheds bright light in a 10 AU radius..
(Reply to #63) reddaemon	Kalani wrote:
#66 Kalani Aug 26, 2014 22:21:49	You are correct, I missed seeing that part of Flaming sphere. It would therefore be negated if cast at the lowest level.
(Reply to #62) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
#68 Kalani Aug 26, 2014 23:35:10	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #68) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
#70 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 0:07:02	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #70) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
#72 Mephi1234 Aug 27, 2014 4:53:52	Lots of much-ado about this all.        About the only reason anyone would be casting Flaming Sphere or Continual Light as a level 3 spell is to deliberately disable a Darkness spell; there are better level 3+ spells to use than Flaming Sphere if you have access to those spell slots.     For a NPC cleric or druid, they could just as easily cast a Daylight spell.    Wizard NPCs could cast Dispell Magic, which has a bonus of potentially dispelling more than just the Darkness.    So, frankly, there are superior options for NPCs to be using and, as they're under GM control, they have whatever spell is necessary at the time.   Okay, there's the occasional case of multiclassed characters.      Wording in a lot of cases with the game is meant to be deliberately vague, leaving it up to individual GMs to tailor the effects to their individual games and invidual game balance.    There is no one right answer for all tables.    I'm glad that the writers acknowledge this, and are letting us deal with it as needed.      There is no one right answer here.
#73 IxidorRS Aug 27, 2014 7:18:05	So, wait... Is this really even that big of an issue?   I know some complained that people will use Darkness near other PCs, but honestly, I'd rather use it when I'm in danger, back up, and let loose the damage spells. Or for sneaking. Those are the only situations it makes sense to me. Using it while you're around a bunch of other PCs- unless they all can see through magical darkness -just seems foolish.
#74 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 14:17:40	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#75 shivafang Aug 27, 2014 13:36:26	Darkness, like invisibility, is not as bad as it was in previous editions.  You still know exactly where the target is unless they take a Hide action.  Your attack rolls are at disadvantage, however.   If they have not taken a Hide action, you can still hear them and know exactly where they are.
(Reply to #74) reddaemon	Kalani wrote:
#77 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 14:23:54	Yes, darkness being able to dispel flaming spheres (and the above named spells) is a departure from established tradition and precedent.   Being a departure from tradition and precedent however, does not make it inaccurate within the 5E rules structure. The spell functions as listed in its description. We can discuss the differences between the 5E spell and its prior incarnations, however those prior incarnations have no bearing on how the spell functions in this edition.   The 5E darkness spell can dispel flaming spheres, and continual flames cast using a 2nd level spell slot. Case closed.
#78 NN1 Aug 27, 2014 15:53:08	The combo is magical darkness mixed with the ability to see through magical darkness (via devil's sight, truesight, blindsight, or clever use of AoE) is a powerful strategy, but it is far from unbeatable, and requires careful coordination to prevent you from harming your own allies.  A two level dip into warlock can get you the devil's sight invocation to see in the dark permanently and two levels in druid lets you wildshape into something with blindsight.  Another path is to get one level in a class that gets "find familiar" or take the ritual caster feat to get a bat familiar and see through it's eyes, though it is likely that the effectiveness of indirect targetting is limited (unless you are using it to deliver touch spells) and the familiar is quite fragile (plus takes and hour and 10gp to re-summon).  True seeing also works, but it is a level 6 spell with a 25gp consumable material component.  To get the darkness spell you need 3 levels in sorcerer, warlock, wizard or way of the shadow monk.  Alternatively, level 5 drow and tieflings get darkness as a 1/day ability at level 5.     I doubt that you can get an entire party to want to lose levels to multiclass into working this tactic, so it will be limited, though you might have a few that can do SOMETHING to avoid the penalties once in a while.  Still, if you have a subset that can handle it, it could be useful.  Maybe coordinate with the scouting party so that you have this trick if things get hairy.
#79 Lipfi Aug 27, 2014 16:17:12	I don't agree that light created by spell is necessary magical but it's very clear to me that by RAW spells like flaming sphere ​are dispelled because light doesn't need to be magical for spells to be dispelled by darkness. IMO RAI is most important and IMO by RAI darkness shouldn't dispell spells like flaming sphere.
#80 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 18:15:40	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #80) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
#82 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 20:52:47	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #82) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
(Reply to #81) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#85 shivafang Aug 27, 2014 22:05:01	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #84) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #86) reddaemon	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#88 shivafang Aug 27, 2014 22:27:25	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #88) 2Chlorobutanal	shivafang wrote:
#90 Kalani Aug 27, 2014 22:38:53	shivafang wrote:
#91 shivafang Aug 27, 2014 22:46:57	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #90) 2Chlorobutanal	Kalani wrote:
#93 reddaemon Aug 27, 2014 22:54:45	Keep in mind also that Wizards do not get Daylight(surprisingly), so they are pretty much required to use Continual Flame to circumvent darkness.
(Reply to #93) 2Chlorobutanal	reddaemon wrote:
#95 ChristopherGroves Aug 28, 2014 4:22:26	Well, history is to blame for the flame thing too .. remember this used to be continual light and somewhere around 3rd it swapped to Continual Flame.     Maybe it's karma, since in the early editions adventuring parties carried bags and bags of continual light cast on rocks, buttons, copper pieces and such to defeat the all too common darkness effects, such that darkness became trivial.  Maybe the mindset has switched.   Or maybe this is a sign that our society is drifting closer and closer to an impending apocalypse; we're all doomed.    Or, like, maybe it's just badly written and constructed.
#96 Seraphex Aug 28, 2014 6:52:34	onceMoreIntoBreech wrote:
#97 KarlB Aug 28, 2014 7:23:03	You know, I still think that Darkness doesn't have an additional effect beyond level 2. It's pretty clear in the description that it only dispels light creating spells of 2nd level or lower. It doesn't say 'it's own level of lower'. Mind you, you can argue that it's a semantic oversight on the part of WoTC and should have read as the latter instead of the former. Personally, I'm leaning towards the former as, even scaled, lower initial level spells tend to be noticeably weaker that their higher level counterparts. Hence, you wouldn't be able to use it to counter Fireball, for example. The description may have been intentional specifically due to that being a concern.   Honestly, there's a lot of uncertainty concerning this spell. I foresee Errata.   Here's a question, though: What would the rules be when dealing with magical light produced by a class feature or monster ability? For example, a 20th level Paladin can spit out bright light in an aura as a clearly magical effect. There may be other classes or monsters who can do this too that I'm not aware of. How would those be affected?
#98 ChristopherGroves Aug 28, 2014 7:46:12	I think you're right Karl; it says specifically 2nd level or lower and doesn't have a scaling clause.  Casting Continual Flame as a 3rd level would not be dispeled by Darkness, even if that Darkness was cast at 9th.   For your other question, I guess that depends on the specific effects and if they say they cancel or dispel darkness.  For Holy Nimbus, it doesn't say anything about countering Darkness, so you'd have the Nimbus (active) as well as the Darkness (active) with overlapping zones, so circles within circles.  The language of Darkness is pretty specific - Holy Nimbus isn't a 2nd level or lower spell - so while the Darkness persists in its own zone, it doesn't dispel the Nimbus.  It would prevent creatures in the bright light from taking the 10 radiant damage, and if either party moved where / how they overlap would change.
(Reply to #87) Hailrobonia	reddaemon wrote:
#100 shivafang Aug 28, 2014 10:09:21	reddaemon wrote:
#101 Kalani Aug 28, 2014 10:25:02	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#102 shivafang Aug 28, 2014 10:41:05	Kalani wrote:
#103 Kalani Aug 28, 2014 13:27:44	shivafang wrote:
#104 shivafang Aug 28, 2014 14:18:19	Kalani wrote:
#105 ChristopherGroves Aug 28, 2014 16:27:52	Kalani wrote:
#106 Kalani Aug 28, 2014 17:55:38	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#107 Talos_Dragon Aug 29, 2014 6:48:56	I know I am entering this thread late but my 2 copper on the subject. . . 1) The... "Light created by the spell."  needs better definition (Hence the size of this thread)....A spell that creates light opposed to light created as a byproduct of the spell debate will drive me mad   2)  I feels that even if a level 2 'Light Spell" was cast using a level 7 Spell Slot.  It is still a LEVEL 2 SPELL and will not affect DARKNESS..(Caster just needs to use a level 3+ spell to bypass)..   3)  Darkness needs a scaling effect  A level 20 wizard casts DARKNESS..  A level level 5 Cleric makes it go away (Daylight) Wizard sulks cries to his moma.
#108 ChristopherGroves Aug 29, 2014 7:05:50	Talos_Dragon wrote:
#109 Talos_Dragon Aug 29, 2014 7:45:10	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#110 ChristopherGroves Aug 29, 2014 8:15:40	Talos_Dragon wrote:
#111 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 9:27:35	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#112 Kalani Aug 29, 2014 10:24:58	The mechanics of each spell in the game are independent. If they were not I could argue that cure light wounds should be cast as a bonus action citing healing word as proof. Dispel magic has no bearing on how darkness functions. For the purpose of the darkness spell - all other spells excluding light-generating spells of 2nd level or lower simply do not exist. Darkness works the way it does becuse that's what it says in its description. Dispel magic is an irrelevant factor.
#113 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 10:53:55	Kalani wrote:
#114 ChristopherGroves Aug 29, 2014 11:10:18	shivafang wrote:
#115 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 11:20:04	ChristopherGroves wrote:
#116 ChristopherGroves Aug 29, 2014 11:30:13	shivafang wrote:
#117 UngeheuerLich Aug 29, 2014 15:26:35	The way I read it:   "Cast at higher level" is a special property of many spells. Darkness and Daylight lack that phrase. So even if you use a higher level spel slot, the spell does not morph into a better spell. So daylight trumps darkness, no matter which slot was used.   edit: i was wrong. Had a different wording in my memory....   but:   darkness can be lluminated by "magical light". A phrase that is never used in light spells (in basic D&D and the HOTDQ supplement). So any spell that casts light in a certain radius can illuminate agical darkness... if it is higher level than 2. Otherwise it is completely dispelled. So darkness can snuff out a flaming sphere cast at level 2, or feary fire cast at level 1. If you cast them at higher level than 2, they are proof agaist darkness. And feary fire especially can be used to outlince creatures in darkness...   So concluding that line of thought:   A darkness cast at higher level than 3 is proof against daylight. But daylight illuminates it as if it was normal darkness.   Most interestingly, sunburst does not "dispell the spell that created the darkness", but only dispells the darkness in that area that was created by a spell. So you can dispell only parts of the darkness, and I am not sure how it interacts with an object that sheds darkness if it was the target of the darkness spell.   So all that was literally reading of the darkness spell. Thoughts?
#118 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 15:25:51	UngeheuerLich wrote:
(Reply to #118) UngeheuerLich	shivafang wrote:
#120 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 15:41:58	UngeheuerLich wrote:
#121 UngeheuerLich Aug 30, 2014 22:35:13	Best thing would have been if spells - like darkness - stated if the light created is magical. Darkness states it is magical and is not illuminated by nonmagical light... I expect an errated PHB at sometimes cleaning it up a bit. (darkness being able to quench magical fires of low level spells or especially call out light spells asmagical light)
#122 movenom Dec 05, 2014 7:23:26	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #122) Nexus6	movenom wrote:
#124 Ganymede425 Dec 05, 2014 9:56:47	reddaemon wrote:
#125 ChrisCarlson Dec 05, 2014 10:03:22	movenom wrote:
#126 Mephi1234 Dec 05, 2014 12:52:43	movenom wrote:
#127 Dyndrilliac Dec 05, 2014 14:05:39	Most Strength-based bladelocks should have taken fighter at first level for proficiency to CON saves if they were planning on using Darkness + Devil's Sight on a regular basis.   The really OP element of the warlock's arsenal is Foresight. There are only 4 classes that get the 9th-level spell Foresight: bards, druids, warlocks, and wizards. Of those, the one capable of the highest melee damage output is the warlock (specifically, the bladelock). Just as a reminder, Foresight lasts 8 hours without concentration and provides advantage on every d20 you roll (saves, attacks, ability/skill checks) while also imposing disadvantage on enemy attack rolls. Oh, and you can't be surprised either. You basically get Darkness + Devil's Sight + the Alert feat for the cost of your 9th-level spell slot and without needing to concentrate. Combine this with Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, Great Weapon Master, and Hex for ridiculous damage numbers.   Nexus6 wrote:
#128 Nexus6 Dec 07, 2014 10:34:09	Dyndrilliac wrote:
(Reply to #128) Dyndrilliac	Nexus6 wrote:
#130 durntaur Dec 08, 2014 9:35:21	The thing about Darkness is that it is a concentration spell. So if one wants to miss out on Hex using this combo, go ahead. It's by no means a no-brainer.
#131 Noctaem Dec 08, 2014 10:10:53	Dyndrilliac wrote:
#132 Kalani Dec 08, 2014 11:25:38	Noctaem wrote:
#133 Sorxores Dec 08, 2014 11:32:21	you take 1 class feature (devil sight) and 1 spell lvl 2 (darkness) to give youself only advantage on all your attack. While in the darkness, your ally got disavantage to attack, but gain avantage to attack an enemy who is also blinded, so they attack without penalty (but they cannto gain advantage with there own class feature (a barbarian cannto use reckless attack to gain advantage (and he won'T give advantage to the opponent) since advantage and disavantage doesn't stack. you cannot have 3 source of advantage cancelling 2 source of disavantage to end up with advantage. If you 1 source disavantage and 100 sources advantage they still cancel each other and you hand up with a regular attack.   So the drawback darkness give you alone advantage, and enemy attacking you have disavantage, and the drawback is your party cannot gain advantage and cannot give disavantage (fighting style protection) on ennemies attack. Also your party cannot benefit from Attack of Opportunity (since you need to SEE the target to get your AoO)   compare to the Barbarian with reckless attack who gain advantage on all attack, the drawback is give advantage to all ennemi atacking him. This ability do not affect the other party member   Faerie light: All attack made against the ennemIES within the area have advantage plus the target cannot go invisible. the drawback, Dex saving throw so the target might not be affected.   Prone: All melee attack within 5ft against a prone target have advantage. Drawback, all the range character (and reach) have disavantage against the target.   ETC...   So Drakness is not the only way to gain advantage easily on a target, and each technic come with there own drawback. IMHO it's seem pretty balance, and some might be more powerfull in certain group make up (darkness woul dbe OP in a group compose of warlock with devil sight and moon druid morphing into a blindsight creature (spîder), but prone is very powerfull in a group of melee heavy character etc...   Before crying OP, maybe look at other abilities with similar effect and compare and remember that their is different build, with different team composition that can weild different effectivement to the same technic. This is why teamwork is so important.
#134 durntaur Dec 08, 2014 11:46:31	Sorxores wrote:
(Reply to #132) Dyndrilliac	Kalani wrote: