Disciple of Life and Goodberry Interplay - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cahas Sep 08, 2014 18:08:47	I'm going to be playing a human cleric and I ran accross the Magic Initiate feat. I then found the Goodberry spell on the druids list and was wondering how the Disciple of Life Domain feature would interact with this spell. Anyone have any good thoughts on this because I think healing 3 additional hit points per berry would be a little nuts. I cannot find a reason why this wouldn't work but it feels wrong.
#2 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 08, 2014 19:01:57	Disciple of Life Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
#3 Gruff_Ironfist Sep 08, 2014 19:06:15	Well, to me, Disciple of Life implies that you are using the entire spell to restore hit points (all berries), not part of the spell (1 berry). I'd rule it as you create 13 berries instead of 10.
#4 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 08, 2014 19:22:18	Gruff_Ironfist wrote:
(Reply to #4) Gruff_Ironfist	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#6 Psikerlord Sep 09, 2014 0:41:49	i think it's fine - it doesnt help in combat as a poster above noted (so only 4hp per action, woo!). It's just gravy out of combat healing, of which 5e has a truckload already. If you're concerned however I would just rule the life ability only works with cleric spells. hmm actually yeah that is probably what I would rule, as otherwise anytime the druid doesnt use up his slots, he will make an absolute HEAP of goodberries every night for the next adventuring day... just 3 empty 1st level slots will = bonus 120 hp healing for the nexy days encounters...
#7 Cahas Sep 09, 2014 5:43:38	Thanks for your quick responses! I am of course going to ask my DM. I just wanted to get some thoughts first. Comparing this combo with Prayer of Healing I'm not seeing an issue with a large amount of out of combat healing now. Thanks again.
#8 Plaguescarred1 Sep 09, 2014 6:23:17	A DM could always rule that Discipline of Life doesn't work on goodberry because you didn't use a spell to restore hit points to a creature but to create goodberries, hence why its a transmutation spell rather than an evocation one, like cure wounds and other spells used to heal a creature.
#9 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 09, 2014 7:21:44	Gruff_Ironfist wrote:
(Reply to #9) Gruff_Ironfist	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#11 Plaguescarred1 Sep 11, 2014 10:56:22	FWIW I asked Co-Creator Jeremy Crawford about this specifically and here's his answer; @Plaguescarred Hola gents! Quick question, does Discipline of Life works on Goodberry granting every goodberry additional HP? @JeremyECrawford I would allow it.
#12 JohnnyBlaise Sep 22, 2014 13:31:14	This is crazy you know? Like, really crazy if that becomes an official FAQ.
#13 Sea-Envy Sep 22, 2014 15:35:38	What about the later feature where the cleric gets healing when he heals somenone else? Would/should the cleric suddenly heal each time one of the berries is eaten?
#14 jonathonhawke Sep 22, 2014 15:36:43	Plaguescarred wrote:
#15 Noctaem Sep 24, 2014 10:46:29	My problem with this interaction is that when you "use" the spell you are creating the berries, this is a transmutation spell after all. Then when you "use" the berries you regain the hp, they even require a seperate action to use. Disciple of life is very specific when it calls out that it only works when you "use" a spell to heal someone. Furthermore, this isn't an evocation spell like other healing spells. You don't use the spell to heal someone, although that could be your personal goal via using the berries, you use it to create the berries which you then use to gain hitpoints. This is a different way of healing someone compared to other healing spells which actually heal targets. That's why this combination does not work. Having said that, if I was DM'ing for a group who had (somehow) no good alternate means of healing, especially at low level, I would most likely allow the combination of these game elements so that the group is not left without good options for healing.
#16 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 24, 2014 11:18:13	I can imagine some kind of crazy Sorc19/Cleric1 build with magic initiate feat burning all his 2-9th level slots for spells points and then turning them into 1st level slots. They could cast goodberry 56 times per day that way, restore 56104 hp, if the disciple of life worked with it. 2240 hp healed...or feed 560 people per day while also healing them each 4 hp. Now I wonder what the current maximum possible HP healed per day by spells is for a single character (not counting short rest abilities)...
#17 Noctaem Sep 24, 2014 11:29:27	Lol why not just start a business! You know I think if I ever DM a campaign for 5e I'll put in an NPC just like that who basically just makes berries all the time for low amounts of money or for free to feed the poor. Cuz why not. And yeah, I haven't done the calcs for the highest healed per day, but this sounds like a contender.
#18 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 24, 2014 11:54:59	Another conender along those lines would porbably be Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 6/Sorc 13, picking up Aura of Vitality with magical secrets. Burning all slots but 3 of your 1st level slots would yeild 21 castings of aura of vitality, restoring 120 hp each on average ((2d6+5)10), totalling 2520 hp healed on average, but taking 21 minutes to do so. The 3 remaining 1st level spells could even be used for goodberry then, for an addition 310*4=120 hp, bringing it up to 2640 total... What have I gotten myself started on...
(Reply to #17) Timborama	Noctaem wrote:
#20 Noctaem Sep 24, 2014 12:00:01	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#21 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 24, 2014 12:12:05	Noctaem wrote:
#22 JohnnyBlaise Sep 25, 2014 7:04:33	I guess no one bothered to read Warlock on this page? Warlock 2, Life Cleric 1, Druid 1: 2 warlock spell slots PER HOUR + 3 multiclass spells per day, and let's assume you choose to take a long rest at some point. That means: 4 points per berryX10 berries per castingX (3 + (2X16)) = 35*40 = 1,400 points of healing per day.... at 4th level. Even without the obviously flawed ruling that lets life cleric do this, its 350 hps per day at 3rd level. Not shabby.
#23 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 25, 2014 7:13:24	If considering short rest abilities, a lore bard 6, life cleric 2, and warlock 12 could have 3 aura of vitality and a small healing channel divinity per rest. Plus a handful of goodberry castings from the daily slots. I imagine a battlefield infirmary filled with bardlockrics working in shifts and interspersing goodberries and aura of vitalities...
#24 Lucas_Blackstone Sep 25, 2014 8:00:36	I don't see this working at all. The spell did not restore hit points to anyone at all. They summoned some berries. The spell is over and done with and you have some berries. When someone eats a berry, there is no spell being used. The caster of the spell certainly is not restoring hit points. The berries are doing it. They were already summoned and are an existing item for 24 hours.
#25 RCanine Sep 25, 2014 9:13:03	Cahas wrote:
(Reply to #24) Gold_Katana	Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
#27 Mistwell Jul 21, 2015 12:34:03	My Lore Bard is considering Cleric 1 just for this interaction - well, and Bless and Guidance and Armor & Shield proficiency.
#28 transcendantviewer Jul 21, 2015 13:29:09	Goodberry was a field medic spell anyway. Letting a Cleric cast it to heal more isn't letting the spell do anything more than it was supposed to. Extra HP per berry feels strong, until you see it used. Unless you're going to actually start up a hospace and just give them out to the poor all day, every day, it's not like it's going to influince anything. 4 HP. Woot. You got the Pally off the ground. 1 hp of healing would have done the same thing. Giving a Warlock that spell and rule interaction could be crazy, but even then, it just means that taking a short rest lets him heal everybody up for free. Everybody else is still missing spell slots and whatnot. And even then, how many times can he really cast it? Don't look at the high levels, look at when the build starts going. What? Level 4? That's like 3 castings a day. Even if he multiclasses Sorcerer for spell slot breaking, he's still only got so many. Just let it go, guys. It's a field medicine "Get back up, Soldier!" spell.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Cahas

Sep 08, 2014 18:08:47

I'm going to be playing a human cleric and I ran accross the Magic Initiate feat. I then found the Goodberry spell on the druids list and was wondering how the Disciple of Life Domain feature would interact with this spell.

Anyone have any good thoughts on this because I think healing 3 additional hit points per berry would be a little nuts. I cannot find a reason why this wouldn't work but it feels wrong.

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 08, 2014 19:01:57

Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more
effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher
to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains
additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.

Gruff_Ironfist

Sep 08, 2014 19:06:15

Well, to me, Disciple of Life implies that you are using the entire spell to restore hit points (all berries), not part of the spell (1 berry). I'd rule it as you create 13 berries instead of 10.

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 08, 2014 19:22:18

Gruff_Ironfist wrote:

(Reply to #4)

Gruff_Ironfist

Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

Psikerlord

Sep 09, 2014 0:41:49

i think it's fine - it doesnt help in combat as a poster above noted (so only 4hp per action, woo!). It's just gravy out of combat healing, of which 5e has a truckload already. If you're concerned however I would just rule the life ability only works with cleric spells. hmm actually yeah that is probably what I would rule, as otherwise anytime the druid doesnt use up his slots, he will make an absolute HEAP of goodberries every night for the next adventuring day... just 3 empty 1st level slots will = bonus 120 hp healing for the nexy days encounters...

Cahas

Sep 09, 2014 5:43:38

Thanks for your quick responses! I am of course going to ask my DM. I just wanted to get some thoughts first. Comparing this combo with Prayer of Healing I'm not seeing an issue with a large amount of out of combat healing now. Thanks again.

Plaguescarred1

Sep 09, 2014 6:23:17

A DM could always rule that Discipline of Life doesn't work on goodberry because you didn't use a spell to restore hit points to a creature but to create goodberries, hence why its a transmutation spell rather than an evocation one, like cure wounds and other spells used to heal a creature.

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 09, 2014 7:21:44

Gruff_Ironfist wrote:

(Reply to #9)

Gruff_Ironfist

Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

#11

Plaguescarred1

Sep 11, 2014 10:56:22

FWIW I asked Co-Creator Jeremy Crawford about this specifically and here's his answer;

@Plaguescarred Hola gents! Quick question, does Discipline of Life works on Goodberry granting every goodberry additional HP?
@JeremyECrawford I would allow it.

#12

JohnnyBlaise

Sep 22, 2014 13:31:14

This is crazy you know? Like, really crazy if that becomes an official FAQ.

#13

Sea-Envy

Sep 22, 2014 15:35:38

What about the later feature where the cleric gets healing when he heals somenone else?

Would/should the cleric suddenly heal each time one of the berries is eaten?

#14

jonathonhawke

Sep 22, 2014 15:36:43

Plaguescarred wrote:

#15

Noctaem

Sep 24, 2014 10:46:29

My problem with this interaction is that when you "use" the spell you are creating the berries, this is a transmutation spell after all. Then when you "use" the berries you regain the hp, they even require a seperate action to use. Disciple of life is very specific when it calls out that it only works when you "use" a spell to heal someone. Furthermore, this isn't an evocation spell like other healing spells. You don't use the spell to heal someone, although that could be your personal goal via using the berries, you use it to create the berries which you then use to gain hitpoints. This is a different way of healing someone compared to other healing spells which actually heal targets. That's why this combination does not work.

Having said that, if I was DM'ing for a group who had (somehow) no good alternate means of healing, especially at low level, I would most likely allow the combination of these game elements so that the group is not left without good options for healing.

#16

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 24, 2014 11:18:13

I can imagine some kind of crazy Sorc19/Cleric1 build with magic initiate feat burning all his 2-9th level slots for spells points and then turning them into 1st level slots. They could cast goodberry 56 times per day that way, restore 56*10*4 hp, if the disciple of life worked with it. 2240 hp healed...or feed 560 people per day while also healing them each 4 hp. Now I wonder what the current maximum possible HP healed per day by spells is for a single character (not counting short rest abilities)...

#17

Noctaem

Sep 24, 2014 11:29:27

Lol why not just start a business! You know I think if I ever DM a campaign for 5e I'll put in an NPC just like that who basically just makes berries all the time for low amounts of money or for free to feed the poor. Cuz why not.

And yeah, I haven't done the calcs for the highest healed per day, but this sounds like a contender.

#18

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 24, 2014 11:54:59

Another conender along those lines would porbably be Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 6/Sorc 13, picking up Aura of Vitality with magical secrets. Burning all slots but 3 of your 1st level slots would yeild 21 castings of aura of vitality, restoring 120 hp each on average ((2d6+5)*10), totalling 2520 hp healed on average, but taking 21 minutes to do so. The 3 remaining 1st level spells could even be used for goodberry then, for an addition 3*10*4=120 hp, bringing it up to 2640 total...

What have I gotten myself started on...

(Reply to #17)

Timborama

Noctaem wrote:

#20

Noctaem

Sep 24, 2014 12:00:01

Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

#21

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 24, 2014 12:12:05

Noctaem wrote:

#22

JohnnyBlaise

Sep 25, 2014 7:04:33

I guess no one bothered to read Warlock on this page?

Warlock 2, Life Cleric 1, Druid 1: 2 warlock spell slots PER HOUR + 3 multiclass spells per day, and let's assume you choose to take a long rest at some point. That means: 4 points per berryX10 berries per castingX (3 + (2X16)) = 35*40 = 1,400 points of healing per day.... at 4th level.

Even without the obviously flawed ruling that lets life cleric do this, its 350 hps per day at 3rd level. Not shabby.

#23

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 25, 2014 7:13:24

If considering short rest abilities, a lore bard 6, life cleric 2, and warlock 12 could have 3 aura of vitality and a small healing channel divinity per rest. Plus a handful of goodberry castings from the daily slots. I imagine a battlefield infirmary filled with bardlockrics working in shifts and interspersing goodberries and aura of vitalities...

#24

Lucas_Blackstone

Sep 25, 2014 8:00:36

I don't see this working at all. The spell did not restore hit points to anyone at all. They summoned some berries. The spell is over and done with and you have some berries. When someone eats a berry, there is no spell being used. The caster of the spell certainly is not restoring hit points. The berries are doing it. They were already summoned and are an existing item for 24 hours.

#25

RCanine

Sep 25, 2014 9:13:03

Cahas wrote:

(Reply to #24)

Gold_Katana

Lucas_Blackstone wrote:

#27

Mistwell

Jul 21, 2015 12:34:03

My Lore Bard is considering Cleric 1 just for this interaction - well, and Bless and Guidance and Armor & Shield proficiency.

#28

transcendantviewer

Jul 21, 2015 13:29:09

Goodberry was a field medic spell anyway. Letting a Cleric cast it to heal more isn't letting the spell do anything more than it was supposed to. Extra HP per berry feels strong, until you see it used. Unless you're going to actually start up a hospace and just give them out to the poor all day, every day, it's not like it's going to influince anything. 4 HP. Woot. You got the Pally off the ground. 1 hp of healing would have done the same thing. Giving a Warlock that spell and rule interaction could be crazy, but even then, it just means that taking a short rest lets him heal everybody up for free. Everybody else is still missing spell slots and whatnot. And even then, how many times can he really cast it? Don't look at the high levels, look at when the build starts going. What? Level 4? That's like 3 castings a day. Even if he multiclasses Sorcerer for spell slot breaking, he's still only got so many. Just let it go, guys. It's a field medicine "Get back up, Soldier!" spell.