Do Unarmed Fists Count As Weapons - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Yunru Jan 09, 2015 2:27:55	Personally I think they do, but there's no disputing it's a murkrow area. For instance: What defines an Unarmed Strike? Anything that's not with a weapon? What's required to wield an Unarmed Strike? Do I need a hand free? Two? None? Can you enchant an Unarmed Strike? It's listed on the weapons table is that enough? (and if not then the Monk is screwed for at least 1/3 of their attacks) Can you duel wield Unarmed Strikes? They're not light, but in some cases it would make sense? etc.
#2 Macv12 Jan 09, 2015 3:12:57	"Unarmed strike" is on the weapon list, and the section on Melee Attacks (p195) directs you to the "weapon table" to see how it works. So as a matter of definition, yeah, it's a "weapon attack" (as opposed to a spell attack). I'd say that any attack you make with your body, instead of a weapon, is an Unarmed Strike. I don't see anything that specifies body parts or anything; I remember something about "you must have a hand free even if you do a headbutt or kick," but that might be 4e. I don't think 5e cares. The Alter Self spell gives you "natural weapons," but in implementation, it just alters the damage if your Unarmed Strike, so that seems to support the idea that that any attack that isn't with a weapon you hold and wield is an Unarmed Strike. I don't see how you'd "enchant" an Unarmed Strike in in-game terms, since it's just your body. Unless you're applying a +1 to your knuckles directly. I don't see why a DM couldn't just do that, since any magic weapon not in the book is being made up anyway. I don't have access to the enchanting rules for players now, but I think the fact that "Unarmed Strike" is a placeholder rules term for "not-a-weapon," you wouldn't actually be able to enchant it. But it would still be fine if you could, I think. Give someone magical studs or tattoos or something that make their unarmed hits more powerful. You can't use Two-Weapon Fighting with an Unarmed Strike, because it isn't light. It is one-handed though, so Dual Wielder might work? But while Unarmed Strike is a "weapon attack," it is explicitly made without a weapon, so Dual Wielder wouldn't actually work. You're not "holding" the Unarmed Strike, it's a substitute "weapon" that becomes available when you're not holding an actual one.
#3 Noctaem Jan 09, 2015 3:25:39	Macv12 wrote:
#4 Yunru Jan 09, 2015 3:37:00	So general opinion is it's used for weapon attacks but not a weapon? Makes sense. I'll probably just homebrew an Amulet of Alter Self, +1, +2, or +3 for any Monk characters in my games. ... Actually Alter Self really blurs the lines between natural weapons and unarmed strikes. Unless all natural weapons are Unarmed Strikes, in which case yay Wild Shape + Monk.
#5 mellored Jan 09, 2015 5:38:27	Yunru wrote:
#6 Yunru Jan 09, 2015 7:56:02	Exactly. You grow claws, fangs, spines, horns, or a different natural weapon of your choice. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the natural weapon you chose, and you are proficient with your unarmed strikes.
#7 mellored Jan 09, 2015 8:05:39	Yunru wrote:
#8 Yunru Jan 09, 2015 9:13:31	Nah, Monks can choose a different damage die entirely, rather than changing the die of the weapon.
#9 Undrhil Jan 09, 2015 14:48:16	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #9) Yunru	Undrhil wrote:
(Reply to #10) Undrhil	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #11) RCanine	Undrhil wrote:
#13 Kalani Jan 10, 2015 19:56:30	Cacturne we all just get along?
(Reply to #12) Undrhil	RCanine wrote:
#15 Yunru Jan 11, 2015 1:31:09	This derail is onixceptable.
#16 Archon007 Jan 11, 2015 14:32:13	Well this thread went from educational, to boring, to hilarious.
(Reply to #16) Undrhil	Archon007 wrote:
#18 Yunru Jan 12, 2015 8:27:44	Some of these puns don't even make sense. It's as if someone took some Scizors to the sentence and replaced random words with Pokeball.
#19 ChrisCarlson Jan 12, 2015 8:33:57	Ewe guise our knot write.
(Reply to #18) Undrhil	Yunru wrote:
#21 Yunru Jan 12, 2015 13:01:26	This thread has Sunkurn like the Titanic.
#22 Kalani Jan 12, 2015 13:03:51	I bayleef you are correct.
#23 BRJN Jan 12, 2015 14:26:44	Noctaem wrote:
#24 Undrhil Jan 13, 2015 16:12:34	Let's move this back to the Hitmontop. ;)
#25 jonathonhawke Jan 13, 2015 22:41:59	PHB, p195: "When you are unarmed, you can fight in melee by making an unarmed strike, as shown in the weapon table in chapter 5." This implies that you cannot make an unarmed strike if you are wielding a weapon, unless a specific rule overrides this one, such as a Monk's Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows. So, for purposes of TWF or fighting styles, unarmed strike does not count as a weapon, except (perhaps) for Monks.
(Reply to #25) Undrhil	jonathonhawke wrote:
#27 RCanine Jan 14, 2015 2:41:56	The way I rule this is that unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack similar to monster claws and bites, but they are not weapons, so abilities that trigger off of "when you are wielding a weapon" or "holding a weapon" don't apply. This avoids odd rules corners like your character wielding weapons while you're unarmed, or the duelist fighting style never actually working because your empty hand is a weapon.
#28 Plaguescarred4 Jan 14, 2015 9:43:36	If unarmed strike is not a wielded weapon it shouldn't add any modifier according to BasicRules pg. 09; Weapons: For each weapon your character wields, calculate the modifier you use when you attack with the weapon and the damage you deal when you hit.
#29 jonathonhawke Jan 14, 2015 10:49:18	jonathonhawke wrote:
#30 RCanine Jan 14, 2015 21:17:45	Plaguescarred4 wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Yunru

Jan 09, 2015 2:27:55

Personally I think they do, but there's no disputing it's a murkrow area.

For instance:

What defines an Unarmed Strike? Anything that's not with a weapon?

What's required to wield an Unarmed Strike? Do I need a hand free? Two? None?

Can you enchant an Unarmed Strike? It's listed on the weapons table is that enough? (and if not then the Monk is screwed for at least 1/3 of their attacks)

Can you duel wield Unarmed Strikes? They're not light, but in some cases it would make sense?

etc.

Macv12

Jan 09, 2015 3:12:57

"Unarmed strike" is on the weapon list, and the section on Melee Attacks (p195) directs you to the "weapon table" to see how it works. So as a matter of definition, yeah, it's a "weapon attack" (as opposed to a spell attack).

I'd say that any attack you make with your body, instead of a weapon, is an Unarmed Strike. I don't see anything that specifies body parts or anything; I remember something about "you must have a hand free even if you do a headbutt or kick," but that might be 4e. I don't think 5e cares. The Alter Self spell gives you "natural weapons," but in implementation, it just alters the damage if your Unarmed Strike, so that seems to support the idea that that any attack that isn't with a weapon you hold and wield is an Unarmed Strike.

I don't see how you'd "enchant" an Unarmed Strike in in-game terms, since it's just your body. Unless you're applying a +1 to your knuckles directly. I don't see why a DM couldn't just do that, since any magic weapon not in the book is being made up anyway. I don't have access to the enchanting rules for players now, but I think the fact that "Unarmed Strike" is a placeholder rules term for "not-a-weapon," you wouldn't actually be able to enchant it. But it would still be fine if you could, I think. Give someone magical studs or tattoos or something that make their unarmed hits more powerful.

You can't use Two-Weapon Fighting with an Unarmed Strike, because it isn't light. It is one-handed though, so Dual Wielder might work? But while Unarmed Strike is a "weapon attack," it is explicitly made without a weapon, so Dual Wielder wouldn't actually work. You're not "holding" the Unarmed Strike, it's a substitute "weapon" that becomes available when you're not holding an actual one.

Noctaem

Jan 09, 2015 3:25:39

Macv12 wrote:

Yunru

Jan 09, 2015 3:37:00

So general opinion is it's used for weapon attacks but not a weapon?

Makes sense.

I'll probably just homebrew an Amulet of Alter Self, +1, +2, or +3 for any Monk characters in my games.

...

Actually Alter Self really blurs the lines between natural weapons and unarmed strikes. Unless all natural weapons are Unarmed Strikes, in which case yay Wild Shape + Monk.

mellored

Jan 09, 2015 5:38:27

Yunru wrote:

Yunru

Jan 09, 2015 7:56:02

Exactly.

You grow claws, fangs, spines, horns, or a different natural weapon of your choice. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the natural weapon you chose, and you are proficient with your unarmed strikes.

mellored

Jan 09, 2015 8:05:39

Yunru wrote:

Yunru

Jan 09, 2015 9:13:31

Nah, Monks can choose a different damage die entirely, rather than changing the die of the weapon.

Undrhil

Jan 09, 2015 14:48:16

Yunru wrote:

(Reply to #9)

Yunru

Undrhil wrote:

(Reply to #10)

Undrhil

Yunru wrote:

(Reply to #11)

RCanine

Undrhil wrote:

#13

Kalani

Jan 10, 2015 19:56:30

Cacturne we all just get along?

(Reply to #12)

Undrhil

RCanine wrote:

#15

Yunru

Jan 11, 2015 1:31:09

This derail is onixceptable.

#16

Archon007

Jan 11, 2015 14:32:13

Well this thread went from educational, to boring, to hilarious.

(Reply to #16)

Undrhil

Archon007 wrote:

#18

Yunru

Jan 12, 2015 8:27:44

Some of these puns don't even make sense. It's as if someone took some Scizors to the sentence and replaced random words with Pokeball.

#19

ChrisCarlson

Jan 12, 2015 8:33:57

Ewe guise our knot write.

(Reply to #18)

Undrhil

Yunru wrote:

#21

Yunru

Jan 12, 2015 13:01:26

This thread has Sunkurn like the Titanic.

#22

Kalani

Jan 12, 2015 13:03:51

I bayleef you are correct.

#23

BRJN

Jan 12, 2015 14:26:44

Noctaem wrote:

#24

Undrhil

Jan 13, 2015 16:12:34

Let's move this back to the Hitmontop. ;)

#25

jonathonhawke

Jan 13, 2015 22:41:59

PHB, p195: "When you are unarmed, you can fight in melee by making an unarmed strike, as shown in the weapon table in chapter 5."

This implies that you cannot make an unarmed strike if you are wielding a weapon, unless a specific rule overrides this one, such as a Monk's Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows.

So, for purposes of TWF or fighting styles, unarmed strike does not count as a weapon, except (perhaps) for Monks.

(Reply to #25)

Undrhil

jonathonhawke wrote:

#27

RCanine

Jan 14, 2015 2:41:56

The way I rule this is that unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack similar to monster claws and bites, but they are not weapons, so abilities that trigger off of "when you are wielding a weapon" or "holding a weapon" don't apply. This avoids odd rules corners like your character wielding weapons while you're unarmed, or the duelist fighting style never actually working because your empty hand is a weapon.

#28

Plaguescarred4

Jan 14, 2015 9:43:36

If unarmed strike is not a wielded weapon it shouldn't add any modifier according to BasicRules pg. 09;

Weapons: For each weapon your character wields, calculate the modifier you use when you attack with the weapon and the damage you deal when you hit.

#29

jonathonhawke

Jan 14, 2015 10:49:18

jonathonhawke wrote:

#30

RCanine

Jan 14, 2015 21:17:45

Plaguescarred4 wrote: