Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kavrek Sep 19, 2014 17:18:14	Incapacitated: An incapacitated creature can't take actions or reactions.    Suprise: Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is suprised at the start of the encounter. If you're suprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't.   Also, does a character in disguise that uses an attack or an ability against an enemy who has not seen through the disguise have suprise against that enemy? The defenition for suprise seems to only cover stealth vs. perception.   I ask all of this because...    Create Thrall: You can use your action to touch an incapacitated humanoid. That creature is then charmed by you until a remove curse spell is cast on it.   ...and because the search function really does need some work on these forums, no search for "suprise", "suprised", "incapactiated", "create thrall", or "disguise" revealed anything relevant, and most often the found threads didn't relate to these terms at all so I have no way of finding if this topic has already been discussed or fixed/found legal etc...
#2 2Chlorobutanal Sep 19, 2014 19:38:14	They are separate conditions, so no, you cannot make a Thrall out of a Surprised creature.  Many conditions, such as Unconscious or Paralyzed or Stunned state that the victim is also Incapacitated, and thus you could touch them and make a Thrall.  However, Surprised is not one of those conditions.   Surprise can occur in any situation where one party enters a hostile situation (combat encounter or initiative-based encounter) but doesn't realize there is an enemy.  This could be due to stealth, disguise, or a sudden betrayal.
#3 DM_HEEGZ Sep 19, 2014 19:45:13	Surprised just means you don't get your turn until the second round. Surprised does not mean incapacitated. Being unconscious grants the incapacitated condition. This means something like the sleep spell, though in my games it most often happens when a PC/creature is reduced to 0hp and knocked unconscious. PCs automatically get reduced to unconscious, and a PC can decide to deliver non-lethal damage with a melee weapon to knock out an opponent. It's pretty easy really. Oh, and there is no save for sleep, just an HP condition...
#4 Kavrek Sep 19, 2014 19:52:06	Hmm...well both interesting responses, to be honest the only condition that should allow for this ability is "unconscious", paralyzed is only the inability to move one's body, the mind is still active, unless the paralysis is due to lack of consciousness or a secondary effect that blanks a mind I suppose. As a dm I would adjudicate that  hold person would not incapacitate a foe's mind enough to let the warlock complete a psychic take over.   Stunned might work assuming that the mind is temporarily blanked leaving nothing more than a swaying husk until said condition ends.   At any rate thank you both for clarifying the terms.
#5 2Chlorobutanal Sep 19, 2014 22:50:32	I personally like the fact that the ability has some combat application in conjunction with stuns, hold spells, or even things like hypnotic pattern, which explicitly charms and incapacitates the victims.