Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mellored Jul 03, 2014 12:05:44	When a creature makes a saving throw against your cantrip, you do half damage. But no cantrip has saving throws, they are attacks.   Am i missing something, or is this a typo?
#2 Jay_Ibero_911 Jul 03, 2014 12:19:00	I really hope that is an oversight/typo so that the feature actually does something in basic. Either by making the cantrips be save based instead of attack based, or by modifying  the feature to also apply to attack cantrips. The latter would probably get booed for damage on a miss...
#3 mellored Jul 03, 2014 12:31:28	I'm sure it's supposed to do something....   but this is why i don't like the attack/save disparity.
#4 Ahglock Jul 03, 2014 12:32:41	Currently it does nothing as far as I can tell.  Maybe more cantrips are in the PH? Looks like a screw up, maybe cantrips had saves when the ability was designed and they forgot to change it.
#5 Plaguescarred1 Jul 03, 2014 13:11:30	There will be cantrips with saving throw in the PHB.
#6 Pyromantic Jul 03, 2014 17:19:39	Plaguescarred wrote:
#7 FallingIcicle Jul 03, 2014 22:26:02	Plaguescarred wrote:
#8 Ahglock Jul 03, 2014 23:17:53	If there are on a save cantrips its not a mistake, it just has less utility than you would like,.
#9 Xeviat-DM Jul 04, 2014 1:58:51	I thought it was adding a save for half damage ... now I'm confused, I read that entirely wrong.
#10 Plaguescarred1 Jul 04, 2014 2:27:02	IDK when the PHB release the Basic PDF may be updated to contain some perhaps
#11 pukunui Jul 04, 2014 3:46:04	FallingIcicle wrote:
#12 Arithezoo Jul 04, 2014 8:00:59	This is why I don't like the split between spells that require an attack roll and spells that require a saving throw.  It is very arbitrary, and results in situations like this.  The critical hit issue is another: why can you get a critical hit with some spells but not with others?   An easy fix, and the way I will be playing: this feature simply makes your cantrips deal half damage on a miss (or successful save).  And a natural 1 on a saving throw is a critical fail, you take extra damage.
#13 Devilbass Jul 04, 2014 9:27:27	I'm really enjoying what I'm seeing so far with 5e through both the Starter Set, and Basic, but this, along with the fact that there are zero monsters or spells that target INT or CHA saves between the two of them concerns me.  I know there is still alot to see, but considering the two generous sources of information we've got now, it seems strange to have these kinds of discrepancies.   Regarding Potent Cantrip in particular, I think I will use it as half damage on a miss.
#14 JRutterbush Jul 04, 2014 9:33:47	I don't think there's a problem with some spells using attacks and some saves, it's just that they don't seem to be using any kind of logic to make the decision. You should use an attack roll for anything you have to manually aim, and a saving throw for anything that you don't: something that just targets a creature without a projectile, or an area affect like a fireball spell. But yes, Potent Cantrip should definitely apply to both attack cantrips and saving throw cantrips, especially since attack cantrips are likely to be the vast majority of them.
#15 Uchawi Jul 04, 2014 10:13:39	I have not gone through the entire basic set, but if spells can have attacks and saves, then martial ability should follow by example, including half damage.
#16 mellored Jul 04, 2014 17:46:40	Ok, so I'm not missing anything and this is a mistake of some kind. That said, I will make it expanded crit range.
#17 Person_Man Jul 04, 2014 18:42:37	How does this interact with Evasion?  It seems like it would directly conflict with Potent Cantrips that target Dexterity.   Also, I agree strongly with Pyromantic and Devilbass.  There shouldn't be a useless ability in the free Basic Rules, or the implication that any Ability Score can be targeted when in fact Int or Cha are never targeted.
#18 alexbra1 Jul 04, 2014 19:49:34	The sacred flame cantrip appears to have a saving throw.
(Reply to #18) E-Tallitnics	alexbra1 wrote:
#20 mellored Jul 05, 2014 8:02:46	E-Tallitnics wrote:
(Reply to #20) E-Tallitnics	mellored wrote:
#22 Plaguescarred1 Jul 05, 2014 13:35:38	21 minutes ago on ttwitter;   @mikemearls  Regarding Potent Cantrip - we'll add cantrips that can benefit from it to Basic D&D
#23 Archon007 Jul 05, 2014 18:36:10	If you don't want to wait just change it to cantrips do half damage on a miss. It keeps the spirit of the class feature in tact.
#24 FallingIcicle Jul 06, 2014 12:26:57	pukunui wrote:
(Reply to #22) Person_Man	Plaguescarred wrote:
#26 Luca Sep 14, 2014 9:33:07	The PH is out and there are only 2 damaging wizard cantrip that require a saving throw: Acid Splash and Poison Spray... and both are Conjuration (not Evocation)! Ok, I think I'll make it work with cantrips that require a ranged spell attack too...
#27 Suzume_Stjohn Sep 14, 2014 11:07:54	Luca wrote:
#28 2goth4U Sep 14, 2014 14:35:21	Perhaps the answer is to give proficiency bonus (or double proficiency bonus) to damage from cantrips without saves?
#29 Luca Sep 15, 2014 7:09:02	Suzume_Stjohn wrote:
#30 Nevvur Oct 12, 2014 20:50:19	I wanted to revisit this thread now that PHB has been out for awhile and people are getting more comfortable tinkering with mechanics. Any new thoughts? Silly indeed that the conjuration school has the only two wizard cantrips affected by an evoker.   Half damage on a missed spell attack, or increased proficiency bonus on attack roll seem reasonable, though I'm more interested to hear suggestions on replacing this class feature entirely.
#31 ZaranBlack Oct 13, 2014 13:22:21	Orginally, this was supposed to be half damage on a miss or on a save.  With the idea that, someday, Evocation would have cantrips with saves.  They took the half damage on a miss out because people whined that noone should be able to do damage on a missed attack.     I really believe the eratta for this book will be just great as in 4th edition.   There are a great deal of things that need work.  And most of them were not in the playtest and added (or removed) during the time between the end of the playtest and the PHB came out.
#32 paulstrait Oct 13, 2014 13:28:42	FWIW, one of the NPCs in HofDQ has potent cantrips, and in that wording, it says that in addition to the saving throw business, the target also takes half damage when the attack roll misses.