I want to extrapolate a bit on the Double Dash discussion. Most of the forumites here seem to think that a person can "Double Dash" in order to move triple their movement in a turn. I disagree and believe that Dash is a toggle, you are either doing so or not doing so, and that it allows you to move up to double your speed in a turn.
I want to see if people believe that other basic actions can be "doubled". In my mind, there are some that are obvious and others that seem obvious, but actually are not written in such a way to specifically exclude "doubling" them anymore than Dash is.
First the ones I think are obviously usable more than once: Attack, Cast a Spell, Search (Search twice? Seems weird, but not entirely unreasonable), Use an Object
Second, the ones I think are obviously a "toggle": Disengage, Hide (though I'm sure someone thinks you can try to hide twice in one turn...)
Third, the ones I think are are also a toggle, but given the forums discussion on "Double Dash" I would like to know if people think these are also things you can do twice: Dash, Dodge, Help, Ready.
So, how do these work?
Dash has been talked about at length.
Dodge? Can a person dodge twice to turn disadvantage into advantage? Can a blinded person do this to actually be harder to hit?
Help? Can you help someone with a task twice to make a super challenging situation into one where they actually have advantage?
Ready? Can you ready two actions? Ready two attacks when the enemy comes in range? Ready a spell and an attack?
Thoughts?
I haven't seen anyone suggest that if you dash you get to triple move.
Actions are simple. You can do one of them. Dash is a duplicate move. It's not a double move. It just duplicates move.
I'm seriously not sure what you're trying to do here. Actions work as described for game balance. Doubling actions isn't a thing.
Dash lets you move your speed instead of performing another action (cast a spell, use the attack action, etc). You also move your speed, for double movement during your turn. I don't know how you thnk it somehow triples your movement.
Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure OP is talking about using bonus actions or Action Surge to be able to take more than one action in a single turn. If that's not the case, then I'm not sure what they were actually asking. My answers are based on the multiple actions per turn scenario.
Sherman wrote:
I believe he's referring to the situation where many characters, such as Monks or Rogues, can Dash as a bonus action. Additionally, anyone under the effect of a haste spell can take an extra Dash action on their turn.
Also, Dash doesn't explicitly let you to move your speed, the action itself does no movement - it adds your speed as extra movement to your existing movement allotment for the turn.
The question, I believe, is whether this is state-based or triggered.
If you are under the impression that Dash is a state check, then you are either (1) Dashing or (2) Not Dashing, which would mean on a turn you either have (2x speed) movement or (speed) movement.
If you are under the impression that Dash is triggered, then you simply add (speed) to your movement for each Dash action you take on your turn.
I personally think that Dash should be additive and a hasted Rogue who took the Dash action twice and Dash bonus action once could run up to 4 times his or her normal speed.
The relevant passage states "When you take the Dash action on your turn, you gain..."
Other similarly-worded actions seem to use this construction to mean for "For each instance of this action you perform, you gain..." (Help, Hide, Search, Use an Object, et al.), so I'd say that every Dash action performed in a round adds your movement speed.
If the intention was for Dash to be non-additive, they could've used a wording other than "gain extra movement" and "increase to speed," such as "you double your movement" or "your can move double your speed."
Edit: I second JRutterbush on all points he made.
I am a little confused as to Dash and how it works as well, does it
a) let you have extra movement distance equal to your speed, so for a human of speed 30ft, he can move 60ft, or does it
b) increase your speed, so a human of speed 30ft now has speed 60ft, and therefore can move 60ft.
The importance of this occurs when a Rogue uses a bonus action Dash and an action Dash. In example a, the Rogue would be able to move 90ft, but in example b, he would have a 120ft speed, as the second Dash would benefit from Dash's second paragraph (Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount.)
I believe the correct answer is example a, 90ft movement with speed still at 30ft.
SteampunkMonk wrote:
Sherman wrote:
I can see both sides of the Dash argument, it depends on whether you see it as a state or a discrete action that adds movement. I lean towards the latter interpretation - it's not like running 90 feet in six seconds is actually that difficult.
I can see the value in allowing a character to ready two distinct actions, particularly if - say - you don't know what direction an enemy is going to come from.
JRutterbush wrote:
Kalani is correct per the rules as written. Dash is an action that lets you add your speed to your movement.
As written (assuming 30' base movement;
Any character: Spend an action to dash (+30 feet)
Fighter: Action surge, dash again (+ an additinal 30')
Rogue or Monk: Bonus action, dash again (+ an additional 30 feet)
In a thread somewhere myself and another user worked out an extreme case where a Fighter 2/Monk 18 used his extreme speed and quadruple dashed. The top speed they can achieve is still less than the world record for top human speed. So as much as this concept warps your mind, it's still within realm of reason for a fantasy setting.
There's no reason why a fighter can't use the dash action twice when they could use the attack action twice. It's still repeating the same action. For that matter, a fighter 2+ who can cast spells (Eldrich Knight or multiclass) can cast 2 spells with few restrictions (only restrictiosn are if they also cast a bonus action spell)
I expect if it wasn't intended for fighters, rogues, and monks to double dash it will be clarified in a FAQ or eratta.
Final food for thought. Wizard can use a bonus action spell misty step to move 30' and then dash and move to get 90' away. I don't see why a fighter using his action surge (limited resource) or monk using his ki (limited resource) to do the same thing is unbalanced. The only balance issue I have with this is the rogue, who can do it indefinitely - but the rules do allow it.
From my reading using your action to dash you gain extra movement equal to your speed. Which is pratically the same as doubling your speed, but isn't actually phrased in that way.
I personally can't see anything in the rules that either states or implies that you cannot use your action to dash then use your bonus action to dash if you've got an ability like Cunning action that lets you use your bonus action to do so..
In fact I'm fairly sure that exists to enable rogues to have an extra quick getaway if they need too.
The nippy buggers.
If they do release an errata stating "You cannot use both your action and bonus action to dash in the same turn", then fine but not seeing much potential for abuse myself.
Illithidbix wrote:
Kalani wrote:
shivafang wrote:
So, about a dozen people just said the exact same thing - slightly rephrased each time - one right after the other. So I'm pretty sure the matter is settled now...
Kalani wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
Archon007 wrote:
shivafang wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
Exactly, there is a difference between your movement during a round, and your character's speed. On your turn, you can move up to your character's speed. Dash adds your character's speed to their movement that turn, it doesn't actually add their speed to their speed. So, it looks more like this:
Start turn: Speed 30ft., movement 30ft.
Action to Dash: Add speed of 30ft. to movement of 30ft. to get a movement of 60ft.
Bonus action to Dash: Add speed of 30ft. to movement of 60ft. to get movement of 90ft.
Ray of Frost states that a target hit has its Speed reduced by 10.
Haste states that the target has its Speed doubled.
These are basically the same game language but in reverse. One decreases and the other increases Speed, thus applying a modifier. So based on the fact that the Dash entry states the following:
"When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers." And "Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount."
So if you have a base speed of 30:
A Hasted creature with base speed 30 now has 60 Speed. Using the Dash action gives you a total of 120 Speed for the turn. Using the Dash action again gives you 180 Speed for the turn. Note that you do not have to use the Dash action at the start of your turn. You are free to move 30, attack, move 30, attack, Dash to gain another 60 Speed, move 30, etc..
A creature affected by Ray of Frost is the same but you have to always keep in mind the 10 Speed penalty. So 30 Speed becomes 20. Using the Dash action then gives you 40 for your turn and another Dash gives you 60. You have to keep in the mind the modifiers which may be in play.
And finally if you are playing your turn with a speed of 30, then Dash to gain another 30 and somehow manage to increase your speed during your own turn say to 60, and then Dash again: You gain an extra 60 Speed because that is now your modified Speed value. It doesn't matter when the modifier came into play, all Dash cares about is your Speed value when you use the action. Same in reverse should you somehow lose Speed.
Also Dash does not modify your Speed. It only gives you extra movement for the turn equal to your Speed. If it could modify your speed, it would say so. It does not. It only gives you extra movement equal to a designated value (Speed). Remember, rules do only what they say they do, no more no less. Dash does not at any point state that it modifies your Speed. Haste modifies your Speed by doubling it. Ray of Frost modifies your Speed by reducing it by 10. The Dash action does not because it doesn't say it does.
Noctaem wrote:
Haste and Ray of Frost should depend on when the effects are applied, right?
30' guy gets Ray of Frosted and then Hasted. 30-10*2=20'
30' guy gets Hasted and then Ray of Frosted. 30*2-10=50'
And Dash doesn't increase speed actual speed, just your speed for that turn. A second Dash action would use the same base speed.
IxidorRS wrote:
JRutterbush wrote:
Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
So, since everyone seems in agreement, I want to take this opportunity to be silly and figure out the most I can get a character to move without teleporting.
Wood Elf: speed 35ft
Level 18-20 Monk: extra 30ft
Normal speed 65 ft
Mobile feat, add 10ft, new normal speed 75 ft
Friendly Ranger casts Longstrider, add 10ft, new normal speed 85 ft
Friendly Wizard casts haste, speed doubled: 170 ft
Action Dash add 170ft
Haste Action Dash add 170ft
Spend Ki, bonus action dash add 170ft
Grand Total of 680ft in one turn, outrunning an arrow loosed from a bow
This makes me incredible happy for some reason 
P.S. Without the spells it is 225ft in one turn
BookooHundo wrote:
JRutterbush wrote:
I think all this does is prove my point. Dash allows you to move up to double your speed, it doesn't add to your speed, ergo, you can move up to 60' with a dash. There is no such thing is a double dash. This wasn't what I started this thread for, but it's interesting how everyone keeps pointing out that Dash doesn't add to speed, but seems to want to add it twice. Double cake please! One to eat and one to keep...
Sherman wrote:
2Chlorobutanal wrote:
This whole
Sherman wrote:
To put it mathematically,
Speed=X, where X >=0
Movement=Y, where Y>=0
Dash=Z, where Z>=0
Movement as a function of speed and dash:
Y=X+Z*X
OR
Y=X(1+Z)
So if you have a speed of 30 ft, and dash zero times then:
Y=30*(1+0)=30, you have 30 ft of movement.
If you have a speed of 30ft and dash once then:
Y=30*(1+1)=60, you have 60 ft of movement
If you have a speed of 60 ft and dash once:
Y=60*(1+1)=120, you have 120 ft of movement
Lastly if you have a speed of 30 and dash twice
Y=30*(1+2)=90, you have 90 ft of movement
crabcrouton wrote:
Hmmm broken down a speed of 30
A round is 6 seconds
30 foot a round = 3.4 miles per hour (average human walking speed in real life is 3.1 so this is a good number for hearty adventurers.)
60 foot a round = 6.8 miles per hour
90 foot a round = 10.2 miles per hour
the fastest human footspeed in a 100 m dash was 27.44 mph by the Usain Bolt
given that I figure a double dash should be alowed. it may break some game mechanic though.
It breaks nothing.