If you have an ability to take a Dash as a bonus action (such as a Monk's 'Step on the Wind' or a Rogue's 'Cunning Action') is there any reason you can't dash twice in the same round to get 3x your base speed?
You can.
Thanks, that's what I figured.
Slyck314 wrote:
It feels very impressive on the table, but moving 90' in six seconds is really not that hard even with a light load (not that D&D distinguishes between normal clothing and a 50lb ruck sack). The weird part is that rogues instantly outrun everyone in the game unless they're on a horse.
Yeah, I don't like it for Cunning Action in particular. But it is certainly legal.
I wonder what's the furthest you can get in a single turn, now. I wish I had the book with me. For memory --
Monks gain +5' speed
Wood elves gain +5' speed
A feat exists that gives you +10' speed, no? Did I dream that?
So that's 50, so you can get 150 feet in six seconds. That's 25 ft/sec; that's roughly 17 miles an hour.
(Theoretically, 17 miles an hour from a standstill, or even from 17 miles an hour running the other way. It's a magical world!)
Upon further reading, I disagree with everyone including my former self (and excluding slyck314). I think we are applying a filter of previous editions and getting an incorrect reading. Dash reads very clearly that when you are Dashing you are able to move an additional amount of distance equal to your base distance. "With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash."
Only with the filter of "I'm taking an action to move 30 feet" does this allow you to Dash twice.
Dashing is an action which allows you to move twice as fast over the course of your turn. Keeping in mind that you can now "move 5' open a door, move 15' take an action, move 10'..." the wording, to me, says that there is no such thing as a "Double Dash". You can do it, but you gain no additional movement as far as I can tell.
This will hopefully get answered by those in the know, but as far as I'm concerned I'm ruling for sanity in my games. The Double Dash doesn't feel right, so it's out.
If you want further proof, consider the following, "Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement..." With the Double Dash reading, you'd get 30' from the first, and 60' from the second. Clearly no one intended for rogues to move 120' turn (fast as a horse...)
Again, here's the quote.
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra
movement for the current turn. The increase equals
your speed, after applying any modifiers.
When you dash, you gain 30 (or whatever your speed is) more movement.
Dashing does not change your speed, just your movement for the turn.
It seems legal by the wording at the beginning of the description, which is: "When you take the dash action, you gain extra movement for your turn." So, every time you take the dash action, you gain extra movement for your turn.
The examples that they give in the Basic Rules (which is what I'm currently using) are just examples. Just because their examples only use the move + Dash scenario doesn't mean that other scenarios can't exist. There is no restriction placed in the classes that says that Dash can't be used as a bonus action when granted by a class ability if the character has already used the Dash action. I am sure it would have been clarified if that was the case. It also does not say that Dash can only be taken once per turn...another clarification I'm sure that would have existed in the rules if it was important.
So, according to the way the rules are laid out, it seems that this is legal:
Move - 30'
Dash Action (action taken - extra movement added = 30')
Bonus Action - Cunning Action (action taken - extra movement added = 30')
Total movement for the round = 90'
This comes out to around 10.2 miles per hour. On average, humans sprint up to 15 miles per hour. There's nothing wrong with this implementation.
Based on what I'm reading people reporting the wording to be, I think it works. Dash does not move you, but it adds to the amount you can move. Your "Speed' is a statistic of your character.
Without dash: you can move your speed (K) every one of your turns, outside of your action.
With dash: the amount that you can already move increases, by your speed. (Total: K + K = 2K)
With dash again: the amount that you can already move increases, by your speed, again. (Total: 2K + K = 3K)
I don't think there's anything by RAW that would make this stop working. And honestly I don't really see anything wrong with fantastic characters going that fast...
A "fantastic" second level character? That's the problem. It's not that fast by real world standards, it's just that fast by table top game standards.
I'm reading intention, which seems to be allowing you to move up to twice your speed in a current turn. I agree that wording of "additional move" seems to say otherwise. If it's not a modifier to your speed (which people seem to be saying in that the second dash doesn't add 60' but another 30') then you're stuck with the problem that there is no such thing as a move action and a bonus move action. You move a total number of feet in any order you like over the course of your turn.
I'm not going to argue the point, I totally get that people want it to work in a very clear cut way that allows the double dash. I agreed with you until I reread it and really thought about how the rules seem to be working as a whole. I'm just trying to explain how I'm reading it differently. I'm focused the usage of "turn" in the text and everyone else is focused on the "addition". No need to quote text, I'm reading the same stuff.
Sherman wrote:
Chimerasame wrote:
This is it exactly. Multitask Like a Boss, not Run Like a Cheetah.
Also, dress this man
like this
and take away the rubberized track for gravel strewn broken land with assorted shrubs, inclines, rabbit holes, trees/people/walls/corpses to run around, and I promise you he's not hitting 27mph. Also, he supposed to be able to open a door along the way.
Sherman wrote:
Honestly I don't, because I don't think it works that way. I know it works a LOT worse in steel toe boots and heavy army with a full pack, sword and shield. Adrenaline is great, but physics is greater. I can totally see both readings of the rule. I think it reads, "allows you to move up to double your speed in a turn" and others think it reads, "adds your speed to your move". I have no argument with the rule either way (which I believe is ambiguous), I have argument with the reason, and more importantly, I have issue with the game balance and being able to use the rules to create a reasonable facimile of reality. Rules that tear me out of any suspension of disbelief are challenging to enjoy playing with.
Half my point for pursuing this thread is for newer players. I've been doing this thirty four years now, I'll play it how I want and not think twice about it. Newer players will likely find this thread and think, "well, I guess that's how it is". I encourage people to think for themselves and not necessarily follow the letter of the law. Some people ignore rules, some people refuse to bend any, and others will want to play the game on a case by case basis. This is one case where I think there is room for argument and people who might be tempted to just do whatever everyone else does will benefit from seeing another point of view. That is all. I don't need to convince anyone, just want folks to take a moment to think about it.
Does Action Surge not count as a bonus action? I'll have to roll an Investigation (Curious) check on my PHB.
That being said, I think a lot of this is highly subjective when you start trying to use reason or logic to equate game rules to real life. Sometimes, for the sake of the many, you may just have to sit on the "I believe" button, but that's not a requirement in the least. I, for one, am kind of a stickler for RAW, but mostly because I think it's important so that everyone is enjoying a fairly well maintained equal playing field. If something sticks out as severely underpower or overpower I advocate house rules to bring it back in line so that play remains smooth (the nail which sticks up must be pounded flat).
All that being said, I'm going to refrain from rambling on about sub-maximal movements, strength training, muscle motor recruitment and what these implicate when discussing speed, agility and the production of power (force/time) as to why the fighter with a high strength is far superior to some nimbly-bimbly roguish neckbeard or low BMI monk who can run across water (just don't skip leg day).
shivafang wrote:
Zerik0 wrote:
Sherman wrote:
Zerik0 wrote:
ProphetSword wrote: