Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Jamwes Oct 01, 2014 11:05:16	Druids only wear metal armor. Do we have an idea on which armors must be made out of metal and which armors a GM would have to allow special materials that are not metal to be used? I ask because while looking in the DND Basic Rules I noticed that some armors which I would've assumed to contain metal don't have metal listed in the discription.   Studded Leather is made of leater with rivets or spikes, but the rules don't specifically call out metal. Ring Mail is leather armor with heavy rings, but the rings aren't specifically described as metal. All other heavy and medium armors (except for Hide) have metal somewhere in the description.   I believe these descriptions mean that Studded Leather and Ring Mail are armors intended to be Druid armors. If these armors wern't intended to be Druid armors, then I believe they would've descriped them as having "metal rivets or spikes" or "metal rings". As written, I believe a Druid could easily find a suit of Studded Leather or Ring Mail to be built with bone or wood or stone materials instead of metal to make the rivets, spikes, or rings.   What do you think? Should Studded Leather and Ring Mail be commonly acceptable Druid armors?   I aplogize if this has been covered before. My search fu is weak on this forum and the Druid guide didn't mention armors.
#2 Llenlleawg Oct 01, 2014 11:46:49	I'm inclined to disagree with you here. Studded leather and ring mail are actual, real world things, and they both use metal.   Also, bone is, when not part of a living thing, quite fragile, so useless fo armor, and the same can be said of wood. If using the implied technology of the game, then both of these armors are using metal not incidentally, but precisely in sufficient quantity to protect/armor the wearer. Sure, you could say that the armor uses witchwood, which is hard as iron, or faerie glass, which is as hard as steel, but then you are really trying to avoid the built-in limitation.
#3 Nachturnus Oct 01, 2014 12:20:46	This is DM's call. Studded Leather and  Ringmail have different degrees of metal, but certainly contain metal and their protective value is derived from their metal qualities rather than their leather qualities. However, most leather armor also includes metal components (buckles, rivets, etc.) Wooden shields typically have metal fasteners, or a metal rim, so it really boils down to how rigorous your DM is going to be. It would be extremely hard for a druid to get all-non-metal objects without hand-making them themselves, or buying them from a druid-friendly provider... or something. Theoretically, a druid could take a set of conventional leather armor and meticulously replace all the metal components with non-metal ones, and substitute and modify parts of the armor until it was fully non-metal, but that would come down to DM fiat, again.
#4 Noctaem Oct 01, 2014 12:13:30	other than armors which specifically state that they are made out of metal.  There's very few IIRC.  All armors can be made of alternate materials.  So it's up to the DM to decide if he wants to give armors that aren't made of metal to the party.  Or you could make your own armors with non-metal stuff.  There's no reason to limit yourself.
#5 BW0222 Oct 01, 2014 14:54:57	Armor is made out of metal because metal works.   Look at any picture of studded leather or ringmail and you see steel -- not cheap iron, brass, bronze, etc. -- but steel. Sorry, bone, woods, crystal, stone, etc. weren't used in armors (even studded or ringmail) because they didn't work. They were either to fragile, heavy, shattered, or unworkable.   Now... in most campaign settings there are fantastical alternatives to metal -- glasssteel, ironwood, dragonhide, etc. Such items would be insanely rare, difficult to obtain, and only a few people would work with it. As in many previous versions of D&D, many campaign settings, and many RPGA-like rules... a DM can certainly allow someone to go kill a white dragon, find a dwarven master in some far away kingdom, and have them make you a breastplate of white dragon armor. Or maybe you find enough ironwood and some high-level elven woodworker who can carve it into ringmail given the claw of some terrible beast and a year.   However, if you just take mundane woods, crystals, slate, shells, scales, etc. and try making scalemail, chainmail, or platemail out of it... it is going to be insanely heavy, bulky, and likely not stand up to more than a few his -- say every 10hp of damage you take it is -1 to its AC.
#6 Plaguescarred1 Oct 01, 2014 16:03:30	If a druid can't wear any armor made of metal, it won't be able to wear most armor because even, shield, leather or padded armor have pins, strap, buckles made of metal! Its up to DM to determine but i think a too strict reading really disfavor the druid to a point that may not be intended and little indulgence is preferable.   Also other material can be used in place of metal, i.e ivory, stone, bone, wood etc..to easily replace if one wants.
#7 Yunru Oct 01, 2014 15:30:09	I'm sorry, are we arguing about how unrealistic it is to use bone in a game with magical creatures with magical bones?
#8 Direach Oct 01, 2014 15:48:56	It really depends on how considerate your DM is willing to be. Personally, I'd be fine with a druid wearing any armour that they were proficient in and was not primarily made of metal. Leather and studded leather are fine as is for me, so is hide. Scale mail is fine, if the scales are from a magical beast, armoured reptile, or some other natural source. Breastplate or plate armour, possibly, if they're made of magical wood or enchanted stone (or both). Chainmail and chain shirts are about the only armour that you really can't reproduce without using metal, unless you're being way more creative than I am at this moment.   Ring mail is junk, and no one besides NPC's should be wearing it or trying to make it.
#9 OoftaMeg Oct 01, 2014 17:45:40	I found this article interesting http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/warriors-3900-year-old-suit-of-bone-armour-unearthed-in-omsk/   So obviously some armor was made from bone historically (which doesn't necessarily mean anything to your campaign).   But to the OP, I would say that any armor that is made with a significant amount of metal, including studded leather, would qualify as metal armor.  Ultimately it's up to your DM.
#10 El_Condoro Oct 02, 2014 2:03:37	It reminds me of the old restriction on clerics - no sharp weapons. Fortunately, that went out the door.   With this restriction, I think I would rule that any armour that specifically mentions "metal" in the description qualifies as a no-go. Pretty unsatisfactory, really, but I don't see anything specific in the rules.
#11 1eejit Oct 02, 2014 2:15:18	Small amounts of metal such as buckles are surely acceptable given they're allowed to use metal weapons, and presumably metal buttons on normal clothes. It's being encased in metal that's the problem, if it similar to what I recall of 2E.   Just wear Ankheg (Breast)Plate!
#12 Grazel Oct 02, 2014 2:40:54	OoftaMeg wrote:
#13 Jamwes Oct 02, 2014 8:53:40	El_Condoro wrote:
#14 Trance-Zg Oct 02, 2014 13:15:36	1eejit wrote:
#15 miles2912 Oct 02, 2014 19:55:12	Trance-Zg wrote:
#16 Kalani Oct 16, 2014 1:51:08	Non-metal variants:   Studded: I would allow bone-studded armor much like what Rattleshirt (Lord of Bones) was wearing in Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)   Ringmail: This one is tough. I guess you could have stone-mail, made with small ringlets of resilient stone. I would increase the weight however.   Breastplate: Chitin armor would be my go-to choice, most likely made from the carapace of a giant scorpion.   Plate: Bone Plate could work, either from a large creature(s) such as dragons, or multiple interlocking plates from humanoids and other such critters. Stone plate, and carapace armor are other suggestions.   Either way, I would rule them exotic materials, requiring the player to have them specially crafted (or found in a loot haul). The cost of such armor would be identical to that of the standard armor, in addition to requiring the player to supply the materials (eg. chitin, bones, etc). They would not gain a discount simply because of supplying the materials - the supplied materials would offset the increased cost of manufacture.   If the player failed to provide the materials, I would likely increase the price by 50%.
#17 paulstrait Oct 16, 2014 8:42:39	Llenlleawg wrote:
#18 Chameleon-X Oct 16, 2014 9:11:04	Studded Leather is just an idiot's rendition of Brigandine Armor, which is basically just a leather coat filled with metal plates (which were riveted into place, hence the "studs"). The plates themselves could presumably be made of anything hard, like stone, jade, bone, bits of horn, or so on (we make them out of Kevlar and Ceramic now). Ring mail could presumably be made of small rings made of stone, bone, or so forth as well, though it's fairly implausible that such materials could be worked into Chainmail, so that's right out. As for Scale and Splint mail, those can (and were) easily made of non-metal scales; like bone, horn, or even hardened leather or wood. A suit of carved wood could easily be a replacement for Plate Mail, and so on.   But yeah, again, it's mostly up to DM fiat.
#19 Polaris Oct 16, 2014 9:23:35	Chameleon-X wrote:
(Reply to #7) Ganymede425	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #17) Timborama	paulstrait wrote:
#22 Polaris Oct 16, 2014 14:12:47	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #6) Coredump00	Plaguescarred wrote:
(Reply to #9) Coredump00	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #9) Coredump00	OoftaMeg wrote:
#26 NimrodVanHall Oct 17, 2014 1:14:09	Coredump00 wrote:
#27 Polaris Oct 17, 2014 8:14:07	NimrodVanHall wrote:
#28 abs1nth Oct 17, 2014 17:57:44	OoftaMeg wrote:
#29 Zardnaar Oct 18, 2014 2:55:17	abs1nth wrote:
#30 abs1nth Oct 18, 2014 4:14:55	Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #26) Coredump00	NimrodVanHall wrote: