Can a Druide change shape into a Dire Wolf (for instance) and then have another player mount him, so that both of them can benifit from variouis mounted combat feats?
How would you handle this in your game?
For instance: the Druid, has an ability to counter attack any one who attacks his rider, (at advantage) and the rider as the ability to redirect any attack towards the druid to him (considering it as a mount).
Pretty effective combination in combat, with a rider having an AC of 20 and the Druid effectively never being the target of any attack.
Thoughts?
This was actually possible in previous editions since the mounted rules simply called for a willing creature. I'm not familiar with how the mounted rules are worded in 5e exactly, but I would allow it in my game. The problem is how do you manage the two players? Can the mount (druid) move and take actions without the rider giving direction? How does that translate during encounters and initiative order? You want to allow the players to have a good time and have fun of course, but you also have to keep it balanced for the group.
I think it's awesome. The benefits are limited by the fact that the two characters have to move together and therefore control less territory.
It is in dead an awesome combination, but I'm already seeing how over powered it is. In this case the player who is the rider, has the Mounted Combat feat. This effectively allows him to direct all attacks against his mount (the other player) to him. The Mount has the sentinel feat, which in turn let's him attack anyone who attacks his rider. And every attack is made at advantage.
Now I know how to counter this with using all the fun stuff like grapple, help and shove, but before I start doing that and risking the label of being a killer DM I wanted to gather a few ideas from the group.
I'm tempted to think the ability to redirect All attacks against your mount is the issue. I think it was intended for simple mounts or even intelligent ones but not a fully built out player character. I would be OK if this ability used a reaction, but All attacks makes this combo pretty tough.
As it was, this combo took out 8 hobgoblins with either of the two suffering a wound.
This is when to keep thing interesting, I would play the hobgobbies tougher and start yanking people off their mount, and aiding one another.
Frankly if players use an uber combo like this, then they're inviting a little more than your tical hobgobbie to come to the fight.
My real issue is I think mounted combat, did not intend for it to grant complete immunity to ALL attacks to other players.
Thoughts?
We do this in my campaign on Wednesdays. I'm a Circle of the Moon Druid 4 and we have a Battle Master in the group with Mounted Combat. It works out great and is not overpowered for our group. Note that my Druid is an independant mount (as mentioned in the rule cited below) and I can take all of my actions on my initiative. Then, on Flynn's initiative he kills whatever is left around us. If there isn't anything (which happens all too often with my Brown Bear awesomeness) then he just delays until I get next to something. Hasn't really been a problem yet.
PHB pg. 168:
An independent mount retains its place in the
initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on
the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts
as it w ishes. It might flee from combat, rush to attack
and devour a badly injured foe, or otherwise act against
your wishes.
In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity
attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you
or the mount.
Here is the relevant rules for using a wildshaped druid as a mount. These rules are also relevant for small PCs using medium-size PCs as mounts.
Mounted Combat (phb p198)A willing creature that is at least one size larger than you and that has an appropriate anatonmy can serve as a mount, using the following rules.
Mounting and Dismounting
- Once during your move, you can mount a creature that is iwthin 5 feet of you or dismount. Doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
- If an effect moves your mount against its will while you're on it, you must succeed at a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall off the mount, landing prone in a space within 5 feet of it.
- If you're knocked prone while mounted, you must make the same saving throw.
- If your mount is knocked prone, you can use your reaction to dismount as it falls and land on your feet. Otherwise, you are dismounted and fall prone in a space within 5 feet.
Controlling a Mount (phb p198)
- While you're mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.
- An independent mount retains its place in the initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts as it wishes.
- In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you're on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.
Winslon wrote:
First off the sentinal feats attack that is granted by a creature attacking his/her ally while adjacent to the sentinal is a reaction, pg 170. This means only once per round. Where is the advantage on the attack coming from? Also creatures and casters with line or cone effects will always target both, even cloud of daggers of which only targets one square.
Dragoloth wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
I appreciate the advice.
Although I think it's a little harsh to call someone out like that kalani. Like me that person may not have access to or the time necessary to look up all the specifics of the rues.
I too thought about the melee weapon angle, but realized the dire wild bite did count as a melee weapon.
My only real issue is the player riding the player character mount being able to redirect all attacks against the player character mount granting a defense that I feel is intended for less capable mounts like horses.
Winslon wrote:
Thanks, Kalani,
That actually makes me feel a lot better now with the situation.
As I stated, it's not really an issue of 'not-being-able-to-handle' the situation...but more for party ballance.
Knowing this, it makes it a lot easier for me to use creatures to their full potential. Espeically if someone min-maxes the rules to that degree.
I'll probably be labeled as a Killer DM. By having the creatures aid each other, shove and grapple ( as usually happens ), but at least the game with be more of a challenge.
Which if players are min-maxing they should expect the creatures to use every advantage as well.
I still think it's not fully intended for druid beasts to be used in conjunction with Mounted Combat Feat.
It's not a "Killer DM" thing to see a mounted person with a lance on a dire wolf and a mosnter's first instinct is to trip the dire wolf. That seems more like common sense, to me 
Just like you would try to trip any mount being mounted by a armored guy with a lance :p
This was pretty common in 3e so it's not that weird to see it making a return.
I don't see a problem with it. As noted, generally Moon Druids want to be taking hits, not avoiding them, so the redirect is so-so. Advantage for the rider and evasion are both good but not off the chart broken (advantage is relatively easy to come by, and we have a precedent for an evasion-like ability from a feat with Shield Mastery). On the flip side, sharing the same space means you're subjected to all the same AoE. So while you're reducing the damage on the Druid through the feat benefit (it will probably end up taking half most of the time, poor Dex saves) you're also potentially increasing the damage by adding another target.
Some DMs might also raise issues over the saddle or lack thereof, since the Druid is going to need to have one attached after they wild shape, which obviously isn't practical if they lose their form and need to re-shift mid combat (RAW, the military saddle gives advantage on dismount checks, while the basic Riding saddle doesn't do anything listed, but I can see some DMs penalizing bareback riding - I certainly would).
Of course, I probably feel less bad about players using this as I've already had enemies do it with monster mounts; I gave the feat benefit to trained orcs on Giant Boar mounts in the playtest, and in the future it may be making an appearance for some Wyvern riders.
If you as DM let the PCs do this, then feel free to let word get out and have the monsters do it back.
Or the monsters can plan to counter it - lead the mount over caltrops or ball bearings or a thicker of 'sticker weeds' - or into a forest of pointy sticks, a la one of the battles in Braveheart.
But I am a not-nice DM and I would rule that the druid must wild shape into an animal of Medium size - so no he can't be a mount. (A relic from my days as a 4e Druid.)
BRJN wrote:
Winslon wrote:
Nope, I don't feel this is "broken". I would allow it in my game with no problem. I don't see how the druid would be different than the rider going and getting a direwolf mount that isn't the druid...which would be worse for the DM imo as there are then 2 dire wolves running about. I like the feats, I like this one and don't mind it as a DM.
As a side note, the OP (i think) mentioned that his rider would delay action...is there still a delay action in 5e? To my understanding there is only using your action as a reaction later in the initiative, but not otherwise altering your place in the round. Am I wrong?
Forgive wrote:
If the Druid also had the Mobile feat they could attack and leave the creature's reach without provoking an Opportunity Attack. The rider wouldn't provoke either, even if they readied their action to attack the target when the Druid got close enough. Great hit-and-run tactic especially if the Druid is multiclassed into something that has a bonus action Dash.
Danny_Montanny wrote:
For instance: the Druid, has an ability to counter attack any one who attacks his rider, (at advantage)
Some things to consider:
- the sentinel reaction only occurs once each round (it requires the PC's reaction)
- There's no raw around what happens when the druid turns back into a human e.g. when reduced to zero hp, so you get to decide--maybe the druid takes damage, they both fall prone, etc
- AoE effects will hit both PCs, always.
Kalani wrote:
Danny_Montanny wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote: