Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lobo316 Sep 24, 2015 20:12:29	Sorry if this has been discussed before (and if so, if someone has a link, please share)...   In regards to a monk/druid multi class...   How do you rule the unarmored defense of the monk when the druid is wildshapped?  What about monk bonus damage?
#2 Yunru Sep 25, 2015 0:07:14	Natural Armor is an AC bonus, but creatures with Natural Armor also have a different way of calculating AC. Thus, you can choose between the creatures AC and Unarmored Defense (presumably including the Natural Armor bonus).
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 25, 2015 9:24:47	Yunru wrote:
#4 jaelis Sep 25, 2015 9:27:51	Mike Mearls says my opinion - natural armor counts as armor. use higher of base 10 + mods or form AC
(Reply to #4) Yunru	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #3) Yunru	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#7 jaelis Sep 25, 2015 12:02:33	Yunru wrote:
#8 Yunru Sep 25, 2015 12:14:33	Monks Unarmored Defense has two conditions: • Your not wearing armor, and • You're not using a shield. You don't wear natural armor so it doean't matter.
#9 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 25, 2015 12:23:54	Yunru wrote:
#10 Yunru Sep 25, 2015 12:22:02	Actually Crawford says it's a grey area but favours it being a bonus (which despite having it's own equation it is listed as a bonus).
#11 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 25, 2015 12:26:29	Yunru wrote:
#12 Yunru Sep 25, 2015 12:35:07	Yes but all the seperate equations are just that. Every case of an AC bonus, however, adds. I suspect Natural Armor will just be eratta'd to only provide a bonus when not wearing armor.
(Reply to #10) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#14 Yunru Sep 26, 2015 9:52:52	Sure I do: it was to me he was tweeting :P https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642542166040948737
#15 Orethalion Sep 26, 2015 16:12:09	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #14) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#17 Yunru Sep 27, 2015 1:11:01	But it is a bonus, because it's called a bonus. It's a confusion pile of nonsense which probably should either have only been an AC calculation, or a bonus that only applies when not wearing armor. Crawford even confirms the precedent by saying a shield works with Natural Armor, proving that bonuses work with any AC calculation.
#18 jaelis Sep 27, 2015 5:47:36	I don't get the argument that everything hinges on whether it is a bonus.   Sure it is a bonus. So is your Wisdom modifier. You don't get to apply your Wis mod to AC unless you meet the right conditions for doing so. I'd say you don't get to apply your natural armor bonus to AC unless you meet the right conditions. And I'd say the right conditions are that you are using the AC formula 10+natural armor+Dex. If you are using the formula AC = base heavy armor + shield, then you dont' get to apply your natural armor bonus, nor your Dex bonus.   The discussion of sheids is relevant to shields. If I recall, JC also said that you can benefit from a shield while using Mage Armor. Doesn't mean you can benefit from natural armor then.
(Reply to #18) Yunru	jaelis wrote:
#20 jaelis Sep 27, 2015 6:02:26	What is the basis for your definition of bonus (and AC bonus)? And what are those definitions?
#21 Yunru Sep 27, 2015 6:43:43	A bonus is something that calls itself a bonus. An AC bonus is a bonus that calls itself an AC bonus. Quite an elegant system no?
#22 Orethalion Sep 27, 2015 7:19:26	jaelis wrote:
#23 jaelis Sep 27, 2015 7:07:32	Sure, I mean we can all fill in rules, that's what being a DM is about. My ruling is that a bonus is a positive modifier, and that a modifier applies to AC when it says it does. Not so different really, but I guess the details matter.   Yunru, I assume you would also let a natural armor bonus apply when using mage armor?
#24 Orethalion Sep 27, 2015 7:23:07	jaelis wrote:
#25 Lobo316 Sep 27, 2015 18:17:37	jaelis wrote:
#26 Orethalion Sep 27, 2015 18:29:48	Lobo316 wrote:
#27 Yunru Sep 28, 2015 0:17:20	Conceptually yes. In practise? There's no difference (for a Druid anyway).
#28 lawrencehoy Sep 28, 2015 21:11:31	Whether or not it is an actual bonus, I don't think the intent is for it to be used in any equation other than 10+Dex mod+Natural Armor bonus.   When combining Natural Armor with Armor that is worn, I would just go with the higher value. A hit that penetrates the source of the higher value AC has no problem also penetrating the source of the lower value AC, basically ignoring it.