Okay, I was just reviewing the rules for when you drop to 0 hit points, and I came across something that seems a bit confusing.
It says that, if you drop to 0 hit points from a hit that has enough damage remaining equal to or greater than your total hit points, you just die. However, it also says that, if you take damage while you are at 0 hit points, it counts as two failed death saving throws.
My question is, does the second rule override the first? If you take a hit while you are at 0 hit points that is equal to or greater than your maximum hit points, does it still kill you outright, or does it count as two failures?
If you are at 0 hit points and take damage equal to or greater than your maximum hit points, it kills you outright.
If you are hit and take damage that is less than your maximum hit points, it counts as a failed death saving throw. If the hit is a critical hit, it counts as two failed death saving throws instead.
Breefolk wrote:
Breefolk wrote:
What the first three posters said. 
Worth noting: at 0 HP you are suffering from the Unconscious condition, so "any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit (2 failed saves) if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature."
Only critical hits from attacks, and a critical miss on the death saving throw cause two failures.
So for instance, if you were reduced to 0 HP by Create Bonfire, you would fall unconscious in that space. On your next turn, you automatically fail the dexterity saving throw against Create Bonfire because you are unconscious, and the damage causes one death saving throw failure. Then you roll a normal death saving throw at the end of your turn, possibly acquiring another.
Breefolk wrote:
Nevvur wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
jaelis wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
jaelis wrote:
Nevvur wrote:
Cooperjera wrote:
I'd probably only do an autokill from something like a guillotine or a slashing weapon like an axe that can behead. A dagger attack (slitting someone's throat) isn't technically an instant kill. They first have to drown in their own blood or suffer too much blood loss to actually die. A beheading though, that's instant death. Or stabbing someone through the heart. Those kinds of attacks are for the cases where the attack deals damage equal to or exceeding their hit point maximum. And those rare cases I think are covered by the rule that if the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum + current hit points, you instantly die.
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Let's consider the "monster drops you, then tries to cut your head off execution-style" scenario and see exactly how likely it is for certain people to die.
Most people you know: Human commoner, 4 hit points. He'll always be at least KOed if hit by an orc. Let's assume that the PC death saves are in play and not the NPC instant death rules. (Note as well that I'm not talking about accuracy here; I'm making the assumption the attacks hit.)
Chance of instant KO on the first hit: 67% (1d12+3 rolls 8 or higher two-thirds of the time.)
On his turn, he has a 45% chance of failing and a 55% chance of passing his first death save.
Orc's turn again. He lines up the axe and swings at the neck (he has advantage, and since he's within 5' any hit is critical). Let's say he hits.
Minimum damage roll: 5. Boom, instant death, your head flies off.
So, two-thirds of the time an orc hits you or people you know, you'll die instantly. The remaining third of the time, he's guaranteed to cut your head off.
Let's take a more heroic example, the NPC Knight. HP 52. He's not dying instantly - he's badass enough to endure a single attack (with whatever narrative description you see appropriate for HP).
However, let's say the orc manages to drop him to 0 somehow. (Again, a single orc isn't going to be able to instantly kill our knight, at least not directly, but the knight might suffer a fall or a cave-in first.)
On his turn, the knight has a 45% chance of failing and a 55% chance of passing his first death save.
Orc's turn again. He lines up the axe and swings at the neck (he has advantage, and since he's within 5' any hit is critical). Let's say he hits.
He can't deal enough damage on a crit (maximum 27, less than 52) to behead the knight, but he does instantly add two failures on the death save.
--At this point, the knight is dead 45% of the time from hitting a third death save. The result is similar to above - head flies off.
--If the knight passed his first death save, he now has another 45% chance of instantly dying from his own death save (succumbing to his wounds) and a 55% chance of passing on to his second success.
--If he's alive after those three chances to die, the orc can repeat the above, cutting the guy's head off.
Basically, the only way the knight's surviving after this is if the orc misses on at least one of his attacks (I skipped this step above, but the orc hits the knight 40% of the time normally, 83.5% of the time with advantage; once the knight drops, the orc misses at least once 30% of the time), and the knight manages to roll three successes (16.6% of the time). Put together, this means the knight survives this situation to stabilize just 5% of the time. Even if this happens, he's still merely "stable", and the orc can start the process again with a crit (two death fails; knight dies 45% of the time on his next turn, and the orc is still able to keep swinging - it just means that he keeps hitting the knight's armor until the head flies off). And this is a badass knight vs a common Orc.
You'll actually find similar results for most higher-level PCs - any PC with max HP > the monster's maximum damage output on a crit will follow the same pattern as the knight, with the same odds of success, adjusted only with how hard the PC is to hit (recalling that the "executioner's coup de grace" strike here has advantage and is a crit on a hit).
(There's a third condition, where a warrior can't be killed outright by a regular hit but can be killed outright by a crit; these guys fall in between, closer to the commoner.)
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Cooperjera wrote:
curiousdragon wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Synjin wrote:
I discovered (by accident) that my HotDQ Paladin could not be killed by massive damage at the hands of certain enemies: they could not possibly generate enough HP damage to reach the threshold.
However they could inflict enough auto-failed Death Saves to kill my character, very easily.
Orethalion, the problem is that you are thinking "real world" here, not D&D. Hit Points are not only physical resistance: "Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability. the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill."
Not being able to instantly slice the throat of a level 20 fighter with 150 hit points is not "realistic", but it is nonetheless the rule in books and movies of the genre, where no-one seems to be able to kill a true hero (or sometimes a villain) in such a fashion. It's very often luck, someone gets distracted, etc.
If you try to apply real-world logic to D&D rules, you will often fail, because these rules are not here to simulate real life, they are here to simulate a heroic-fantasy world.