Earth Glide, et cetera - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pauldanielj2 Sep 29, 2014 19:16:26	The way I'm reading monster abilities like Earth Glide and Incorporeal Movement is that they give monsters a pretty powerful ability to avoid PC attacks. For instance, a monster with Earth Glide could move to a position inside the ground beneath a PC, or inside a wall next to a PC, and attack, while being immune to counter attacks (since, presumably, a PC would have no way to target a foe who's actually inside of the ground or a wall). Is there anything in the rules to suggest this isn't possible? I mean, why would an Earth Elemental come out and fight from an open space where it could be counter-attacked when it has the option of merging into the floor and attacking from a position of invulnerability? Earth Glide. The elemental can burrow through nonmagical, unworked earth and stone. While doing so, the elemental doesn’t disturb the material it moves through.
#2 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 29, 2014 19:31:53	Well with incorporeal movement there is the built in damage it takes for ending inside an object, and PC's can just ready their attacks for when the creatures come out to attack them.
(Reply to #2) pauldanielj2	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#4 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 29, 2014 20:03:47	pauldanielj2 wrote:
#5 Coredump00 Sep 29, 2014 20:06:05	The rules also don't say they can attack from under the ground. It is just as feasible that the elemental needs to 'transition' from being inside the earth to being outside the earth... and its an all or nothing transition.
#6 AaronOfBarbaria Sep 30, 2014 2:15:11	Seeing through the solid object to attack your target without having disadvantage is certainly something to keep in mind, if you are choosing to interpret being able to move through solid earth as being able to attack through solid earth, rather than interpreting earth glide to do exactly what it says and nothing else.
#7 lawrencehoy Sep 30, 2014 2:52:17	I'm in agreement with the others here; I think the intent of the rule is for movement only. Requiring the creature to exit the wall to attack would be consistent with other rules (such as hidden, invisibility, cover, etc.). I don't see why the earth elemental couldn't just exit the wall, attack, re-enter the wall; so, readied acitions might be the only effective method of battling one with those tactics (especially readying an action that halts movement).
#8 Yunru Sep 30, 2014 4:19:09	Or someone with Sentinel locking them down. But the lack of charging makes that hard to do.
(Reply to #4) Gruff_Ironfist	Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
#10 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 30, 2014 17:56:49	Gruff_Ironfist wrote:
#11 Plaguescarred1 Oct 01, 2014 3:01:07	IMO If the earth elemental is in a space occupied by a stone wall, then even though he can burrow through it, it remains a solid surface acting as total cover so he can't attack through it unless he comes out of it first.
(Reply to #11) Timborama	Plaguescarred wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

pauldanielj2

Sep 29, 2014 19:16:26

The way I'm reading monster abilities like Earth Glide and Incorporeal Movement is that they give monsters a pretty powerful ability to avoid PC attacks. For instance, a monster with Earth Glide could move to a position inside the ground beneath a PC, or inside a wall next to a PC, and attack, while being immune to counter attacks (since, presumably, a PC would have no way to target a foe who's actually inside of the ground or a wall).

Is there anything in the rules to suggest this isn't possible? I mean, why would an Earth Elemental come out and fight from an open space where it could be counter-attacked when it has the option of merging into the floor and attacking from a position of invulnerability?

Earth Glide. The elemental can burrow through nonmagical,
unworked earth and stone. While doing so, the elemental
doesn’t disturb the material it moves through.

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 29, 2014 19:31:53

Well with incorporeal movement there is the built in damage it takes for ending inside an object, and PC's can just ready their attacks for when the creatures come out to attack them.

(Reply to #2)

pauldanielj2

Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 29, 2014 20:03:47

pauldanielj2 wrote:

Coredump00

Sep 29, 2014 20:06:05

The rules also don't say they *can* attack from under the ground. It is just as feasible that the elemental needs to 'transition' from being inside the earth to being outside the earth... and its an all or nothing transition.

AaronOfBarbaria

Sep 30, 2014 2:15:11

Seeing through the solid object to attack your target without having disadvantage is certainly something to keep in mind, if you are choosing to interpret being able to move through solid earth as being able to attack through solid earth, rather than interpreting earth glide to do exactly what it says and nothing else.

lawrencehoy

Sep 30, 2014 2:52:17

I'm in agreement with the others here; I think the intent of the rule is for movement only. Requiring the creature to exit the wall to attack would be consistent with other rules (such as hidden, invisibility, cover, etc.).

I don't see why the earth elemental couldn't just exit the wall, attack, re-enter the wall; so, readied acitions might be the only effective method of battling one with those tactics (especially readying an action that halts movement).

Yunru

Sep 30, 2014 4:19:09

Or someone with Sentinel locking them down. But the lack of charging makes that hard to do.

(Reply to #4)

Gruff_Ironfist

Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:

#10

Jay_Ibero_911

Sep 30, 2014 17:56:49

Gruff_Ironfist wrote:

#11

Plaguescarred1

Oct 01, 2014 3:01:07

IMO If the earth elemental is in a space occupied by a stone wall, then even though he can burrow through it, it remains a solid surface acting as total cover so he can't attack through it unless he comes out of it first.

(Reply to #11)

Timborama

Plaguescarred wrote: