Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Theridion1 Aug 09, 2014 15:12:47	So Eldritch blast makes 1 or more bolts per casting. The Invocation Agonizing Blast allows "add your charisma modier to the damage it deals on a hit". How does this work? Lets use an 11th level warlock with a 20 charisma. OPTION 1: 3d10+5 vs 1 target? OPTION 2: 3d10+15 vs 1 target? OPTION 3: 1d10+5 to each of 3 different targets? I believe options 1 and 3 are the correct rulings... as getting multiples of your stat on a single action against 1 target seems... too strong. I know it has come up that with 2 levels of warlock, a sorcerer can twin and/or empower eldritch blast all day long.
#2 Proletheus Aug 09, 2014 15:20:17	Option 2 and Option 3, since you need separate attack rolls. Since eldritch blast can target multiple foes, I don't think a sorcerer would be allowed to twin it btw.
#3 mrsrockguru Aug 09, 2014 15:23:40	Theridion1 wrote:
(Reply to #2) Ashrym	Proletheus wrote:
(Reply to #2) Theridion1	[quote="Proletheus"]<p>Option 2 and Option 3, since you need separate attack rolls. Since eldritch blast can target multiple foes, I don't think a sorcerer would be allowed to twin it btw.</p> [/quote] Its my understandimg that a sorcerer can twin any spell that targets an individual creature. Why wouldnt an eldritch blast cast against a single target qualify for twinning for 1 powerpoint? Warlock 2/Sorcerer 9, for example, puts the wizard damage to shame mostly... especially considering they are only behind a full wizard by a 5th and 6th level spell slot... but they have a pretty abusive cantrip in comparison to every other caster class. I am not sure how a bow + stat compares... as a a ranger, for example, will only get two attacks vs a target, but an eldritch blast is hitting for uo to 4 dice and 4 stats. Seems very overpowered for a 2 level dip.
#6 Proletheus Aug 09, 2014 15:40:44	Ashrym wrote:
#7 Proletheus Aug 09, 2014 15:42:17	Theridion1 wrote:
(Reply to #6) Ashrym	Proletheus wrote:
(Reply to #6) Theridion1	[quote="Proletheus"]<p></p><blockquote><div class="xbbcode-quote-header">Ashrym wrote:</div><div class="xbbcode-quote-content"> <p> </p> <p>Mike tweeted that this is incorrect and each target can only be affected by the bonus once as the intent when adding the ability modifier to spell attacks. Applying the bonus multiple times to eldritch blast multiple times on a single target breaks that consistency. Per the intent provided in the tweet it would be options 1and 3. RAW looks like options 2 and 3 but RAI was each target takes the bonus once. </p></div></blockquote> <p> </p> <p>Mike Mearls tweeted a lot of obviously wrong stuff in the last weeks. He also tweeted that Duelist would work with unarmed strike, which was generally considered to be wrong (even I, as a future monk player, would love him to be right there ;) ). When it comes to RAI, a fighter with four attacks can apply his ability mod four times, why shouldn't a mage be able to do so?</p> [/quote] Because it takes 20 levels of fighter to access that unique 4th attack. Compare that to 2 levels of warlock to access 4xstat vs 1 mob. Other fighting classes all get 2+ attacks... with other class features that ideally muddle out the difference of 2 or 3 attacks vs 4 of the fighter. Every other caster is at 4 dice for all cantrips essentially... some get to add a stat. Eldritch blast would be a unique 4x stat... with wording that could be implying the monster was hit (how many times, doesnt matter...) hit by eldritch blast causes stat damage. Stat damage PER casting... not o per bolt. I think the damage is rediculously off base compared to other casters. Just imo. I want other caster to be viable options too.
#10 FallingIcicle Aug 09, 2014 16:20:47	Theridion1 wrote:
(Reply to #9) Ashrym	Theridion1 wrote:
#12 Mephi1234 Aug 09, 2014 19:14:12	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #12) Overpromises	I suspect that even with four beams from Eldritch Blast directed at the same target, the Charisma bonus would only be added to the damage once.   I also suspect that even with four beams from Eldritch Blast directed at the same target only one attack roll is made.   I wish the wording was much clearer about something so important.
#14 Mephi1234 Aug 09, 2014 19:39:17	Overpromises wrote:
(Reply to #14) Overpromises	Mephi1234 wrote:
#16 OgreBane99 Aug 09, 2014 23:19:40	I think the OP's main concern is that it seems to be a simple 2 level dip into Warlock to access the full potential of eldritch blast, which is arguably one of the biggest and most unique elements to the class.  One could then simply switch over to sorcerer for an almost-as-good spell progression while continuing to blast away with a much better cantrip than any other sorcerer/wizard/etc.  His point, I think, is that a warlock2/sorcerer18 is better than a sorcerer20.
#17 Theridion1 Aug 09, 2014 23:37:54	See. Comparing fighters to warlocks is impossible. If you want to compare warlocks to their caster counterparts and claim its the same as the fighter compares to their equivalent counterparts.... then we can have a huge complex conversation.... But saying fighters get 4, warlocks get 4..... is just like me saying warlocks should get 4x stat to damage because I have 4 pillows on my couch. Its a numerical coincidence imo. Not direct intent. So magic weapons are rare and low powered... and its only time before casters get +1 impliments etc... so lets not worry about magic items and who wins that race. Lets just focus on core mechanics. I think we all agree that stat per monster seems fair. They are all monsters hit by the spell. If yiu are hit by the spell you also suffer charisma bonus to damage. At d10's, force damage, with a stat... it is already the best cantrip in the game. My min/max is not perfect as I havent had time to digest the book, but brief glancing says that #2 is sorcerer with charisma to acid damig casting acid burst at d6 + charisma. Those two cantrips are similar... Acid burst potential is 4d6+5 to two baddies (19 damage apiece at level 20) Eldritch Blast would be (1d10+5) 10.5 damage to 4 baddies. Eldritch blast 4d10 +5 or 4d10 + 20 is either 27 damage to one mob or 42 damage to one baddie, depending on how you rule it. 4 swings with a greatsword is 32 damage. Yes, the fighter can trigger some bonus damage maybe, but dont forget the warlock has actual spells that refresh constantly... and can be flying with knockback even on his blast etc. Seems fair... kinda sucky for other casters. But ok. Heres the problem. Only the fighter gets 4 attacks. And the fighter needed TWENTY levels to get it. What about a 1 handed fighter? What about a ranger with a pet doing 7 or 9 damage a hit? This damage mechanic for Warlock I would argue as RAI should be only 1 stat per monster. Every other class requires investment in the class to reach max damage output as class was designed. Instead, your bard loses very little and gains a lot by having 2 level dip in warlock. Your sorcerer is probably nest off with 2 levels of warlock. Maybe its a bad design choice. But if you assume RAI is that you must level in a class to see abilities improve and stack (which you usually do) then this is either a flaw or oversight. I do not believe this is 4th edition amd damage needs to be equal. I do not care is Warlocks out damage evocation Wizards, as they each bring unique abilities to the table. I have a problem because it makes a "no brainer" 2 level dip almost mandatory for charisma classes. Its too easy. Its the same argument people made in 3rd edition about every fighter with a greatsword because it was hands down the best weapon on release. Its a bad precedent to allow multiplication of stat.... I would go so far as to guard against a sorcerer using their +stat to elemental spells on multiple scorching rays shot against a single target. And yes, fighters can -5 for +10 range or melee, but if you drop 25% chance to hit, Id argue that that ability probably only adds 1 or 2 damage to high level fighters.
(Reply to #16) Theridion1	OgreBane99 wrote:
(Reply to #18) Dyndrilliac	Theridion1 wrote:
#20 Mephi1234 Aug 10, 2014 4:30:35	Overpromises wrote:
#21 Theridion1 Aug 10, 2014 8:50:05	There will be damage buffs to spells. There will be impliments that add damage. There will be prestige classes that add damage. if wizards believes all cantrips are falling behind, there will be feats etc to move them all up. Guess which cantrip will recieve 4x's the boost? Just because wizards saves those for splat books doesnt mean it wont be there. And what were the powers that were suoer strong in 4E? Multiattacks. Twin strike. Any powers that let you repeatedly hit a target. Stacking damage adds on them is benign day 1 one. 3 careless splat books in and its broken. And what does a sorcerer lose for that 2 level dip? A feat? A soell slot? A high end ability that is flavor? And what do they gain? They are surely still casting 9th level spells. An at will that does at least double the damage of any other cantrip. An at will that is stupid easy to twin and quicken, even at lower levels. An at will they you argue is the only action in the game that lets you multiply your stat and dish it to one creature. Heck, you just saved yourself a feat because it is also an unstoppable force damage. Forget worrying about resistance. As for fighters barely doing more damage with greatswords after taking FOUR swings vs 1 CANTRIP.... Sure. After 4 swings... with a greatsword... and the reroll 1 and 2 ability... fighter barely outdamages a warlock(or non-warlock) cantrip.... a cantrip. The fighter... in melee... barely beats someone on a 2 level dip. And as i said, the "warlock", warlock2/sorc18, spends 1 of his powerpoints and doubles his damage by twinning. Or triples his damage by quickening. And he can all that level 5+... No other caster can expend that damage without expending high end spell slots. Scorching ray i cool... but you are expending spell slots if you boost it. Count the spell slots for wizards. There arent that many to go through even 2 combats throwing legit spells that compete with twinned eldritch blasts every round. I know all we are talking about here is opinions and feelings. "Look at the number 55! Its clearly bigger than 33!" So its not a situation where things can be easily solved. But Id just like to say, if I am sitting down making a bard.. and i make his background and race and stuff... i think "how can i also contribute to party damage?.. hm.. what would be an easy... YAY! 2 level dip warlock, Im done for 20 levels!" Silly. Silly. Silly. 3 sillies for the 3 bonus applications of charisma to a cantrip. Eldritch blast should be erratad or clarified to 1 to hit roll per target. Even THEN its still the best cantrip in the game.
#22 Mephi1234 Aug 10, 2014 11:36:19	In short, you're guessing.   You guess this will happen, you think that will happen.   You have no proof, we have seen no evidence that any of your guesses will exist in truth.   As well, you are clearly not doing the math right, since greatsword blows the eldritch blast out of the water by 25% higher damage on average without any force multipliers, action points, or subclass features.   You are just wildly reacting and blowing things out of proportion.  "Ohh!  Two level dip solves all my problems despite the fact that the class comes with superior other options."      You want to prove it is broken?   Show the math.     Except you can't.    Fighter is outdoing per-turn damage of an eldrtich blaster.   At low levels, the bonus from eldritch blast isn't a big deal, while at higher levels, wizards and bards are getting access to damage spells of high enough tiers that eldrtich blast can't match, and far more spell slots than the warlock with the average of one short rest an adventuring day day.    By level 11, the lore bard, wizard, and sorcerer can go the entire day (4 encounters, 4 rounds each on average) without a single cantrip.   The Warlock cannot - they get 3 spells renewed with just one short rest.  6 rounds of 16.      Show level by level builds comparing them and how one is superior to the other.   Include damage over the entire day.
(Reply to #22) Theridion1	You assume the wizard is only casting damage spells. No invis. No dimension door. No teleport. Nothing. If thats truely all your wizard casts then the wizard can keep up with eldritch blast for 16 rounds at level 20... sounds like fun not castong 99% of the spell list in an attempt to keep up with a cantrip... the fact that the war/sorc can cast eldritch blasts all day long... twinned and quickened for similar or more damage... at will... to wizard spell slots is crazy. And if its warlock2/sorc18, still having 18 full levels of casting from sorcerer... and not using any of the spell slots for damage. He still has super high spells on hand he hasnt even touched while your wizard stayed competetive in damage by burning his entire daily selection to keep up with... the cantrip. My point is simple. The warlock cantrip steps out of cantrip land into direct competition with primary action attacks. It surpasses everything to the point where we are comparing it to freaking fighter greatswords at level 20 with 4 attacks. It should be d10s. Divide them among 1 or more targets. 1 attack roll per target. if it was that.. it would still be the strongest cantrip in the game. and again. The problem is not just numbers. Its a damage mechanic you get with a 2 level dip that all other classes require investment. Just to get a d8 bonus to damagr at higher levels, you have to invest levels in paladin or a cleric domain. But if you took 2 levels of sorcerer... then you are cool cuz you get d10+ stat every 5 levels... no more investment. That is specifically avoided everywhere else in the game. Everywhere. Except 1 poorly worded or designed ability. And i cant use math to show you broken because there is no math solution that would show broken. I cant wave the number 72 around and say broken, because its relative magnitude is still opinion. All I can point out is that the Warlock seems to be pooly designed and is pretty subpar. It just is horribly put together. And i gaurantee yku, wizards either erratas eldritch blast, or goes out of their way to give all casters stat multiples on cantrip spells with a feats in the next splat book.
#24 Proletheus Aug 10, 2014 13:04:25	Theridion1 wrote:
#25 Talos_Dragon Aug 10, 2014 13:56:02	SO if a fighter has more than one attack he can hit for Weapon + Stat bonus damage no matter if he is hitting one or two targes.  But a Warlock.  A Class that has to INVEST in adding Stat bonus damage can only do it vs a single target?
#26 evilprincesssasha Aug 10, 2014 14:03:53	Overpromises wrote:
#27 Polaris Aug 10, 2014 14:05:19	Talos_Dragon wrote:
#28 Proletheus Aug 10, 2014 14:11:15	Overpromises wrote:
#29 Theridion1 Aug 10, 2014 14:11:50	I know people keep saying to prove its broken... Cant 4x stat on a cantrip be wrong, even if you dont think its broken? Part of the idea is as feats and +3 impliments appear, things will continue to multiply for this cantrip... +3 to firebolt will be +12 to eldritch blast....
(Reply to #28) Overpromises	Proletheus wrote:
#31 Polaris Aug 10, 2014 14:46:32	Theridion1 wrote:
#32 Mephi1234 Aug 10, 2014 16:05:43	Polaris wrote:
#33 Polaris Aug 10, 2014 16:11:19	Mephi1234 wrote:
#34 thewok Aug 10, 2014 16:37:44	Overpromises wrote:
#35 Mephi1234 Aug 10, 2014 16:43:48	Polaris wrote:
(Reply to #34) Overpromises	thewok wrote:
#37 2Chlorobutanal Aug 10, 2014 18:43:29	I'm not sure if this is a different situation because eldritch blast relies on multiple attack rolls which reduces its damage potential a bit, and is part of a separate class, but based on magic missile and the Empowered Evocation feature, even though the text seems to indicate multiple instances of bonus damage, it is clearly intended (as mentioned by Mr. Mearls) to apply "once per target per spell."   I'm inclined to think that the bonus would only apply once per target per eldritch blast casting, but I've been mistaken before about how much damage is intended for a character (a la multiple Sneak Attacks in one round.)
(Reply to #35) Ashrym	Mephi1234 wrote:
#39 Mephi1234 Aug 11, 2014 3:37:07	Ashrym wrote:
#40 Mephi1234 Aug 11, 2014 3:45:33	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#41 Psikerlord Aug 11, 2014 4:21:14	Mephi1234 wrote:
#42 Psikerlord Aug 11, 2014 4:14:46	OgreBane99 wrote:
#43 Polaris Aug 11, 2014 8:13:56	Mephi1234 wrote:
(Reply to #39) Ashrym	Mephi1234 wrote:
(Reply to #44) TheCriticalFail	Disregarding how strong you think it is, has anyone really come up with any better conclusion on this yet? Since people seem to be in disagreement across every forum I've looked on. Purely looking at the raw, the wording does suggest that it would apply on every successful attack. "add your charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit" and "on a hit the target takes 1d10 force damage... make a separate attack roll for each beam." Since from the wording of eldritch blast, every successful attack is considered "a hit" it makes sense that the charisma modifier would be applied each time. In the case of Mike's tweet raised earlier, I'm presuming this is the tweet made about empowered evocation? If so, since the wording on the abilities is a little different I'd say we should wait for an additional response regarding eldritch blast rather than presuming this applies here as well. Though I agree that this definitely complicates the matter and makes it quite possible that the raw does not state it in the manner it was intended to be used. Finally, I just had one comment to make with regards to comparing damages. While I agree that if the damage modifier is added every time it becomes a must on most semi-mage classes such as bard, it is nowhere near as overpowered compared to other abilities as some people are making out. For a start, the ability is about equal to fighter's with extra attack for its lifetime. Now, I agree that it's odd for a mage class to be equal to fighter damage with a cantrip, but for a start let's remember that warlock's only get 4 spells other than cantrips between each short rest. That is FOUR ATTACKS that are not cantrips. They may be decent spells, but most parties I've been in only take about one short rest a day usually... considering that and they way Warlock's play with at-will abilities etc, I'd say it makes sense for it to be an intentional design decision to give them a high damage cantrip to allow them to remain viable. But anyway, let's just consider for just a moment what some other classes get at level 17 (the point where eldritch blast reaches 4 hits and becomes really quite powerful). Monk: Quivering Palm. 3 ki points (you have 17 at this point) to set up vibrations which, when activated, kill a target automatically when they fail their save and dead 10d10 necrotic damage when they don't. This attack can be used as many times as you have ki points. ... Yeah, I'd say this one blows eldritch blast clean out of the water.   Fighter: Can now Action Surge twice in a turn (gain back after short rest). At level 17, with three attacks per attack action, that's going to be a total of NINE ATTACKS on a turn. Add in the potential to prone a target using a maneuver to gain advantage and the perks of great weapon fighter and that's going to hurt A LOT. Since fighter gets this ability back after a short rest, I'd say this equals out one or two of the warlock's damage potential from it's 4 spell slots. A lot of potential for very high burst damage here, though admittedly it's limited by short rest. Now, I still think Eldritch Blast is strong, but not necessarily AS strong. At that stage of the game most other classes have abilities to either counter it, or deal equivalent effects. Also, let's consider a pure warlock WITHOUT Eldritch blast gaining this bonus. At levels 2-4 the warlock will have a TWO spell slots per short rest and a cantrip that deals 1d10+3 usually. That's an average of 8.5 damage... not bad but significantly weaker than a lot of other classes. But not bad. At levels 5-10 the Warlock will have... still only two spell slots and the ability to deal 2d10 + 4 if they've upgraded CHA. That's... an average of 15. Which by the way, can now be ENTIRELY equalled by an evocation Wizard using firebolt. A wizard who has 4 1st level, 3 2nd level, 3 3rd level, 3 4th level and 2th level spell slots per long rest. As opposed to the Warlock's 2 5th level per short rest. Which will last the warlock about one fight. At this point the wizard will continue to SIGNIFICANTLY outperform the Warlock at every level. Warlock has, in my opinion weaker class features than most of the other magic classes. It has FAR fewer spell slots which, while regenerating on a short rest, will barely last you a single fight... let alone if you want to save any to use OUT of battle. While the Warlock class is undoubtedly fun... if the damage from agonizing blast does not apply on every hit, as the raw PHB implies, there is no possible way for them to even remotedly compare to other spellcasting classes in effectiveness. Well, unless you go down the blade pact route but at that point you're becoming a warrior more than a mage. However, I would not be opposed to an amendment that adjusted eldritch blast to make it so it only scales of warlock levels rather than character level. This would keep Warlocks effective as opposed to making them often little more than a 2-level dip to pick up an insane cantrip for other spellcasting classes, or nerfing their one good sustainable damage ability to the point where they're no longer really viable as a class. Unfortunately this would be an outright rule change rather than purely a different interpretation, making it unlikely to pass.
#46 Undrhil Aug 13, 2014 10:40:51	They could just clarify that Mike Mearls' tweet was incorrect and cantrips scale with the class level of the class to which the cantrip belongs.  That makes the Magic Adept feat *way* less strong than it currently is, because anyone can poach Eldritch Blast and have that cantrip level up with them.   Also, most of the cantrips scale up to just have increasing damage but still just one to-hit (or one saving throw), whereas the fighter has to continue making attacks to match that damage.  So, one cantrip, one d20 roll, the enemy takes (for instance) 5d10 damage.  One weapon, five attack rolls, the enemy *might* take 5d10+(5*STR or 5*DEX) damage, or they might take less if any of those attacks miss.  Eldritch Blast seems to be on-par with the fighter's multiple attacks in this regard.
(Reply to #45) Ashrym	TheCriticalFail wrote:
#48 Mephi1234 Aug 13, 2014 11:43:31	The problem is that people are overvaluing the eldritch blast in a white room scenario build that really doesn't work well in execution.   Not to mention that multiclassing is far less attractive in 5e thanks to how milestones work and the lack of dead levels.   On a few other places, the skald is being touted as the most powerful gish because, by level 14, he can be running Haste and smites together for massive damage.   Sorcerers are making major headway in other circles for the power of Twin Spelling any number of powerful spells.   I've seen some rather insane Control bard builds that basically prevent the enemy from ever landing a hit on the party, save on very lucky rolls.   Its insane when a single character can effectively shut down an entire opposing team of monsters on their own.   I really think that people are just underestimating the sheer power bards and sorcerers can bring to bear on their own.   Its rather quite alarming how powerful they are.
#49 Psikerlord Aug 13, 2014 15:51:52	Mephi1234 wrote:
#50 Otakkun Aug 19, 2014 20:10:00	Psikerlord wrote:
#51 Dastion Aug 19, 2014 20:28:18	I DM'd at GenCon this year and we had the opportunity to ask Mike Mearls and Greg Bilsland some rules questions and this one game up.   Empowered Evocation triggers off of a damage roll (not hit), so any responses to that are given with that wording in mind.  Magic Missile requires you assign damage dice before rolling them (the missiles hit simultaenously) each separate target is a separate roll.  So two missiles at one target and one missile at another would be 2d4+2+Int on the first target and 1d4+1+Int on the second.   In any situation where something has to resolve before you can roll damage they are separate damage rolls.  Keeping with the Empowered Evocation example, Scorching Ray would get +Int to each ray since you have to resolve a hit between each damage roll.   Similarly, Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast triggers off of each hit.  As someone else stated quite eloquently earlier, Eldritch Blast does 1d10 damage on a hit, so that is modified to 1d10+Cha on a hit.
(Reply to #51) TheCriticalFail	Dastion wrote:
(Reply to #8) Shiroiken	Ashrym wrote:
#54 mellored Aug 20, 2014 5:25:52	Merls is less developer and more manager at this point.
(Reply to #53) Ashrym	Shiroiken wrote:
(Reply to #54) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
#57 mellored Aug 20, 2014 9:23:08	Ashrym wrote:
#58 1eejit Aug 20, 2014 9:29:25	Why are you still arguing about it? The issue has been clarified in post #51 here.
(Reply to #58) Ashrym	1eejit wrote:
#60 Dastion Aug 20, 2014 10:28:29	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #60) Ashrym	Dastion wrote:
(Reply to #61) Overpromises	“N’attribuez jamais à la malveillance ce qui s’explique très bien par l’incompétence.”―Napoléon Bonaparte
#63 Yunru Aug 20, 2014 12:41:15	Overpromises wrote:
(Reply to #55) Shiroiken	Ashrym wrote:
#65 BookooHundo Aug 20, 2014 18:34:34	Shiroiken wrote:
#66 Yunru Aug 20, 2014 18:37:05	Actually this whole forum is about rules questions. So unless it's "how should I interpret this" (or things to that effect) intent doesn't matter, only RAW.
#67 TrainedChimp Aug 21, 2014 8:34:31	Ashrym wrote:
#68 KarlB Aug 21, 2014 11:25:30	I'm fairly certain Agonizing Blast deals added damage per hit. Since each beam is attack rolled and damage rolled seperately.   I was originally very leary about this kind of combo from class dipping, but when I reread the multiclassing rules, I realized that just dipping two levels into another class would kill one of their ability score/feat increases as well as that class' signature level 20 boosts (some of which are really really sick, i.e. Barbarian). Maybe in the case of Bard, it's not AS powerful, but it would still be a lost ability boost/feat as well as one lost Bardic Inspiration when you really need it. Personally, I think most feats are much more game changing than Agonizing Blast.
#69 Geeknamese Oct 18, 2014 19:38:21	I would consider Mearl's tweets strongly because although, he's just the manager/lead developer in overall design and cohesion and not privy to every designer's intent, he does play a warlock as one of his mains so he should know a thing or two about how the warlocks abilities were meant to be intended. This can't be the first time this has come up for him. It would have come up as soon as he hit the level to get multiple Eldritch Blasts per cast and if this is his ruling, it's probably the ruling they roll with when playing with each other at WotC.
#70 paulstrait Oct 18, 2014 22:12:06	I'm not sure what tweet they were talking about at the beginning of this thread but in this tweet he seems to be saying the opposite of what people had been saying he was saying.  My suspicion is that this was b/c he was in fact inconsistent, though I don't really know.
#71 Strill Oct 19, 2014 0:07:12	Psikerlord wrote:
#72 Strill Oct 19, 2014 0:12:17	KarlB wrote:
(Reply to #71) FrogReaver	Strill wrote:
#74 Strill Oct 19, 2014 0:47:54	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #72) FrogReaver	Strill wrote:
(Reply to #41) FrogReaver	Psikerlord wrote:
#77 Strill Oct 19, 2014 1:15:29	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #77) FrogReaver	Strill wrote:
#79 Zardnaar Oct 19, 2014 15:13:48	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #79) FrogReaver	Zardnaar wrote: