Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Proletheus May 17, 2015 14:33:58	Hi fellow D&D fans,   I recently have encountered a situation where I find it hard to make a clear call, so I thought I'd post this here.   When it comes to Eldritch Knight spells, the following phrase is written on PHB p.75: "You know [...] spells [...] you must choose from the abjuration and evocation spells on the wizard spell list."   Now let's look at spell scrolls and the Staff of Defense. Since the thing is right next to me, I'm going to cite LMoP.   LMoP p. 53 Spell scroll: "If the spell ist on your class's spell list [...]" LMoP p. 54 Staff of Defense: "you can use your action to cast one of the following spells from the staff if the spell is on your class's spell list" (on a side-note, wouldn't this mean you can't use shield as a reaction with this staff and therefore can't cast it at all?)   Right now, I'm not sure whether an EK can use these items at all.   RAW, I would argue that the EK doesn't have a class spell list (he rather borrows spells from another class's spell list) and therefore cannot use these items. However, you could also make a point that the EK's spell list is the wizard spell list. When doing this, it raises further questions though: Do all wizard spells count on being part of the EK's spell list? Or just the abjuration and evocation ones? What about the spells outside of these schools he learned? Are only his learned spells on his "class spell list"?   What do you think?   Best regards, Proletheus
#2 Tempest_Stormwind May 17, 2015 14:55:50	I'd say the EK's list is the same as the wizard list; it's the spell list the class uses. It's just named something different.   The operative word for me is "learn". Nothing stops them from casting, say, Illusion spells from the wizard spell list - in fact, if they learn Mirror Image at level 8, they do that all the time.
#3 Noctaem May 17, 2015 15:10:45	From the PHB page 74-75   Eldritch Knight combines the martial mastery common to all fighters with a careful study of magic.  Eldritch Knights  use magical techniques similar to those practiced by wizards.  They focus their study on two of the eight schools of magic: abjuration and evocation.   So to me that makes it clear that they use the same spell list as wizards.  No spell list is provided so you have to default to the wizard spell list.  So anything that refers to your spell list would refer to the wizard spell list.  It should also be noticed that the rest of the text goes into further details on exactly how EK's differ with their use of magic compared to wizards.  It should also be noted though, as Stormwind states above, that EK's are not forbidden from learning spells that aren't abjuration/evocation, they are just limited to how many they can learn.   Staff of Defense would turn the action required to cast a spell into an Action on your turn.  That's because the system is designed as an exception based system.  Specific always beats general.  In this case, the general rule is that to cast Shield you need to use a Reaction.  The staff of defense changes that to an Action specifically.  The same can be said for spells that would normally require a bonus action to cast.  So yes, you could then cast Shield or any other on your turn as an Action if you were so inclined.   EK's can use the items you listed without any issues.   Hope this helps.
#4 Coredump00 May 17, 2015 15:47:50	In general I would rule they get all of the abjuration and Evocation spells from the wizards list, but not the rest of the spells.   But in a game... it would depend on the players and the magic item.
#5 Noctaem May 17, 2015 16:00:30	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #5) Coredump00	Noctaem wrote:
#7 ArialBlack May 18, 2015 7:39:11	I think that the reference to 'action' regarding shield is an error. It should remain a reaction.
#8 jaelis May 18, 2015 9:01:50	ArialBlack wrote:
#9 reddaemon May 18, 2015 11:10:09	jaelis wrote:
#10 Proletheus May 18, 2015 13:43:39	Thanks to all of you for your input. It seems I was a little bit too strict on the semantics. I'm gonna play it this way, then.