| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1SeuleslintanJul 13, 2015 22:53:37 | hello there
is there any info about an coming agonizing blast nerf?
Elemental Affinity and Empowered evocation reads the same and got cleared up (i like the faq clarification)
so will eldritch blast with agonizing blast get nerfed soon too? |
| #2RazintarrJul 13, 2015 23:23:36 | No, agonizing blast is pretty clear it adds the damage when eldritch blast hits, so with multiple attacks that's on multiple hits. Elemental Affinity and Empored Evocation read differently (damage to the spell) and had to be cleared up.
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| #3SeuleslintanJul 14, 2015 5:48:07 | add your Charisma Modifier to the damage it deals on a hit. the spell hits the bolts hits
so i dont see that its perfect clear or different from EE? |
| #4YunruJul 14, 2015 5:51:54 | Doesn't matter. It's not getting nerfed. |
| #5iserithJul 14, 2015 5:59:29 | Start here:
How does the warlock getting bonus damage on Eldritch Blast cause you to have less fun at the table? How does it cause you to fail at creating exciting, memorable stories?
If you can answer these questions, you'll probably have an idea of what to do about it on your own. |
| #6melloredJul 14, 2015 6:36:20 | Agonizing blast isn't that strong.
It's better then a normal cantrip yes. But still behind the fighter and barbarian.
And it's even fine for a bard/sorcerer to get. Losing 2 levels of slots, and your highest level spell is a reasonable trade. |
| (Reply to #6)Seuleslintan | ok then it looks that its intended that 2 lvl warlocks will give you an cantrip with
for example lvl 11: 3xW10+3x5
and this xtra cool powergamers take sorc for quickened so they get 6xW10+6x5 and then cast hex for for 6xW10+6x5+6xW6
thanks for your responses! i really thought that agonized will be "errataed" =) |
| (Reply to #7)ArialBlack |
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| #9OoftaMegJul 14, 2015 7:37:48 | Just to be clear, the devs have stated on more than one occasion that the errata was just to clear up typos and to clarify intent. Nothing has been done (yet) to try to balance out or "nerf" powers.
Altering the rules for balance may happen at some point, it has not happened yet. |
| #10melloredJul 14, 2015 8:47:12 |
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| #11Tempest_StormwindJul 14, 2015 10:11:14 |
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| #12Coredump00Jul 14, 2015 13:32:30 | I would suggest an Agonizing Blast 'nerf' by capping the damage by Warlock level. It have virtually no effect on a straight warlock, but does effect those 2 level dips.
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| #13jaelisJul 14, 2015 13:42:16 | Two levels of fighter gives you second wind and action surge. Two levels of rogue gives you sneak attack and cunning action. No reason two levels of warlock shouldn't give you something useful, IMO.
If there's a case that Agonizing Blast is better than what fighter or rogue gives you, then that would worth considering, but I'm not convinced. |
| (Reply to #13)Coredump00 |
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| #15FunkySpunkJul 14, 2015 21:39:30 | After seeing my Warlock 3/Sorcerer 7 do so much more damage than my friends Sorcerer 10 (I think those were the levels), I'm inclined to agree that capping the cantrip,Eldritch Blast at Warlock level, not character level is a good fix. |
| #16jaelisJul 14, 2015 22:30:33 | I think that if straight damage is your goal, you shouldn't be a sorc or warlock. Main point of playing a caster is big, game changing spells. Your 7/3 character is giving up 5th level spells to get a bump in at-will damage. Which is fine, but it should be a pretty good size bump to be justifiable. |
| #17SeuleslintanJul 15, 2015 3:07:36 |
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| #18melloredJul 15, 2015 4:16:51 | barbs are generallly better off with polearm master, and they don't have 20 str. though they do have advantage. missing deals no damage. |
| #19SeuleslintanJul 15, 2015 5:22:54 | ok then take -1 damage per hit for barb and for warsorc
and why do you differ ranged and melee. this warsorc can stand in melee too with similar AC (better if casting) with no disadvantage and only 2 hp per lvl lower
but to go back to topic ^^
if the rules say: Cha Damage per hit then all is fine, i thought that this is similar to Damage per Spell =) so it need a clarification per faq too :-) |
| #20melloredJul 15, 2015 6:02:43 |
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| #21melloredJul 15, 2015 6:10:28 | And for fun, a fighter 8, with 20 dex and crossbow expertise (76 HP). 3d10+15 = 31.5 .60+.1 archery = 0.45 accuracy = 22.05 +22.5 battlemaster dice, +14.7 action surge.
So your sorcerer/warlock is less then an archer. Who also has more HP. |
| #22jaelisJul 15, 2015 6:27:56 | I don't think we should give the impression that the sorc/warlock is bad though... it does decent at will damage, and of course it does have a bunch of good spells to do things that an archer or barbarian can't. I think it's a decent build.
But if EB scaled with warlock level rather than character level, it would be total garbage, the warlock levels would be mostly a waste. |
| #23melloredJul 15, 2015 6:47:59 |
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| #24SorsohkaJul 15, 2015 6:55:48 | No no need for errata, because abusing a 2 level dip to gain the possibility to cast a cantrip spell 3 time per tound (action, quicken bonus action, and warcaster reaction) doing a total of 12d10+60 per round is not overpower,
But god forbid that a sorcerer can deal 20d6+60 damage using a level 9 spell compare to meteor swarm dealing 40d6 (IIRC) damage in a AoE once per day, compare to a fighter dealing 16d6+40 twice per short rest. Scorching ray with elemental afinity at level 9, a once per day power was soooo Insane, doing less damage then meteor swarm, doing slightly more damage then the fighter using an ability he can use twice per short rest. Sorcerer needed that nerf, sorcerer had to be limited to twin cast haste on the fighter and the barbarian, cast fireball killing the cannon folder then become useless for the remaining of the fight, go hide in a corner o you don't loose your concentration on twin cast.
A fighter level 11 using Hazirawn spending action surge, dealing 3 attack with his regular action, plus 3 attack using action surge, plus 1 additional atack with Haste (thank to the sorcerer) plus one bonus action using great weapon fighter and a potentiel reaction having a total of 9 attack in a single round, dealing each 2d6+2d6+7 with an attack bonus of +11. Having the option to deal 4d6+17 damage per hit with a attack bonus of +6 is not overpower
But a sorcerer using a wand of the war mage, upcasting scorchign ray to level 6 dealing 7 attack doing 2d6+5 each with a attack bonus of +10 was so overpowered that the sorcerer had to be nerfed it was WAYY too powerful. Remember the fighter will be able to do the same 9 attack after a short rest and untill then will be limited to 6 attack, while the sorcerer used his only spell level 6 and next round will be restricted to spell level 5 (6 attack) then spell level 4 (5 attack etc...) and each time he cast upcast scorching ray he loose the opportunity to cast other spell of the same level, so basically the sorcerer is choosing between scorching ray level 6 dealing 7 attack doing 2d6+5 or disintegrate ray dealing 17d6+40, yes scorchign ray was way too powerfull and had to be nerf, but the fighter and the warlock are fine, no need to nerf them.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me how scorching ray was so overpower when using elemental affinity on it. Since from my math it was simply allwoign the spell to stay usefull at higher level allowing the sorcerer to stay relevant pass round 2 and allowing sorcerer to take spell other then single target spell so there 15 spell limitation still allow them to choose utility spell to help the party. |
| #25ORC_RagnarJul 15, 2015 7:07:22 | I have removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.
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| #26MechatarrasqueJul 15, 2015 7:18:11 | It isn't about overpowered, it is about gimmick infringement. Elemental affinity scortching ray with added damage to every blast was stealing the warlock's gimmick, and now it isn't. |
| #27shintashiJul 15, 2015 7:35:29 | agonizing blast is used for the Warlock because the warlock really fits the Fighter-Mage Block more than "im just another wizard" trope. So Agonizing blast is basically the Warlock's version of a Ranged weapon. When i was in AL with my wife, playing my archer, she had it and we would stick together doing ranged stuff. I did more damage per hit, she got more hits. When our Fighter got sucked into the portal with Tiamat, she said "Don't worry, we can follow... I have plane shift". That was pretty sweet. Like a Warrior Class with utility spells. |
| #28UngeheuerLichJul 15, 2015 8:33:13 | I wish eldritch blast would have been a class ability. But I also don't see a big problem. Being one spell level behind is a big deal. In the end it is the same. But during levelling which means more or less all the time, you have to wait longer than otherwise. If you play a game where damage is very important, multiclass. If a little extra damage is not needed, and other approaches are encouraged, the trade is usually not worth it. |
| (Reply to #22)Coredump00 |
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| #30SeuleslintanJul 15, 2015 9:51:37 | cap AB? you take lvl 2 Warlock and then you can take it. what do you mean with cap it?
edit: yes i could houserule it but thats not my intention. i master RAW and all is fine ^^ |
| (Reply to #26)Sorsohka |
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| #32MazzyJul 15, 2015 11:15:26 |
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| (Reply to #30)Coredump00 |
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| #34MechatarrasqueJul 15, 2015 11:40:22 |
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| #35FaradeyJul 27, 2015 11:27:29 |
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| #36jaelisJul 27, 2015 11:49:32 | In the spell it just refers to your level, and in 5e your level is your level. It would need to say something like "The number of blasts increases to two when you have 5 levels in the Warlock class," etc.
And welcome! |
| #37FaradeyJul 27, 2015 11:57:54 | Well then, that's House Rule #1. Cantrips scale with class level, not character level. It makes no sense to scale it with character level. So, a Fighter 14/Wizard 3 can only do 6d4 total damage with a 2nd level spell (Melf's Acid Arrow) ONCE per day, but a 0-level cantrip can do 4d10 ALL day long? Sorry, but yeah that's really dumb and should've been an obvious fix.
and Thanks! |
| #38jaelisJul 27, 2015 12:26:19 |
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| #39Tempest_StormwindJul 27, 2015 15:03:20 |
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| #40arnwolf666Jul 27, 2015 15:11:10 | To me, they should take it away. I do not see this happening. I think it also draws away from being a warlock. Instead of being a cool guy who has pacts, he is the ranged damage guy. I would much rather see them focused on their pacts and summoning creatures related to their rather pact then just hit things with eldritch blast. Basially, I would like to see more opportunities to showcast their relationship with their pact. |
| #41Greenstone.WalkerJul 27, 2015 16:02:26 |
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| #42KangodoJul 27, 2015 16:21:41 |
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| #43OoftaMegJul 27, 2015 16:42:16 | There's also the issue of characters that get cantrips in some other fashion than by class. By being a high elf for example.
If my fighter has Ray of Frost because he's a snow (high) elf from the north pole, it would be nice to be able to use it for my entire career. |
| #44FaradeyJul 27, 2015 17:51:11 | Ok, clearly others have put a lot more thought, effort, and math into this than I have....or ever would. You all make it sound so mechanical, which makes it sound a lot less fun. I play these games to have fun and create a cool character, not check out a spreadsheet looking for the 'optimum build'. D&D still has the level/hp bloat that most d20 games have, which must be why they only made cantrips that do damage scale up. If it was all about making cantrips useful for the character's entire career, then maybe they should've scaled all cantrips up in some way (i.e. Guidance gets a d4 at 1st lvl, d6 at 5th lvl, d8 at 11th lvl, and d10 at 17th lvl. or increase the radius and duration of Light at those levels, extend the range of Mage Hand 10 ft. at those levels, etc.). Also, if there are better ways of dealing damage at higher levels, why bother having them scale at all in the first place? Maybe they shouldn't have made cantrips (or magic for that matter) permeate or cross-pollinate so many classes... |
| (Reply to #44)AaronOfBarbaria |
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| #46Tempest_StormwindJul 27, 2015 22:06:16 |
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| #47melloredJul 28, 2015 6:01:23 |
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| (Reply to #44)Coredump00 | I don't think the issue is what the rules currently are.... that is pretty straightforward.
I think the issue is more what the rules 'should be'.
I also believe that it doesn't 'make sense' for fighter levels to help with casting cantrips. So....
1) What would happen (good and bad) if the rules were changed so cantrips scaled with Class level?
2) What would happen (good and bad) if the rules were changed so cantrips scaled with Caster level? (calculated the same as spell slots)
Looking at this from the other side.... a wizard 19 that takes just one level of fighter all of a sudden gets a +6 attk with a greatsword... |
| #49SeuleslintanJul 29, 2015 1:21:42 | first: the Agonizing Blast bonus damage triggers when the spell hits, not when a blast (you cast several blasts with one spell) so i would add this damage per spell hit not per blast hit. then its equal to sorc or wizard adding their int/cha per spell
add it to eldritch blast damage when it hits but eldritch blast creates beams, scaling with lvl, but 3 beams are 1 EB Spell? so only 1 bonus damage, like sorc/wiz
second:
Quote Mellored Fireball does 21 damage (50% save) * 3 targets = 63 damage. EB does 5.875 more then firebolt. 63/ 5.875 = 10.7
It takes 10.7 eldrich blasts to catch up with the damage of 1 fireball. * 3 fireballs = 32.1 eldrich blasts.
Even if you just compaire the quicken... 2 quickened EB's = 53 3 quickened firebolts = 61.875 --quote end--
EB deals at lvl 11th 3 beams with 1D10, with quickened 6x D10 every hit gets bonus lets say Cha +5 so 3x (D10+5) when all hit and 6x (D10+5) D10=5,5 so 16+15 with 3 hits 32+30 with 6 hits
but i dont need a spellslot, so i can cast this more often than a fireball
how do you get your EB damage of 5.875? Lets say 33% of your EB hit (3 beams at lvl 11) then you deal 1D10+5, so 11,5 Damage without quick or hex (hex would add another w6 per hit) |
| #50YunruJul 29, 2015 3:07:01 | If you have four beams you have four attack rolls. If those for attack rolls exceed the target's AC then the spell hit four times. |
| #51melloredJul 29, 2015 7:52:08 |
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| #52texassnowmanJul 29, 2015 11:33:25 |
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| #53SeuleslintanJul 30, 2015 8:15:04 |
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| #54melloredJul 30, 2015 8:19:27 |
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| (Reply to #53)Yunru |
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| #56Tempest_StormwindJul 30, 2015 9:01:48 |
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| (Reply to #56)Seuleslintan | no, hex says when you hit
to hit you make an attack roll
to hit with a spell you cast a spell ^^
to hit with a beam like with ED then you roll every beam, but all beams are ONE Spell or? |
| #58YunruAug 04, 2015 9:42:42 | Doesn't matter. Each beam is it's own spell: 4 hits would trigger Hex 4 times. Each beam is the same spell: 4 hits would trigger Hex 4 times. |
| #59SeuleslintanAug 24, 2015 8:37:40 | yes hex is per hit (regardless of EB, Magic Missle, ...)
but AB is per Spell
thanks for your feedback, wondered if there are other standpoints out there but looks like that everyone says |
| #60FallingIcicleAug 24, 2015 14:13:49 |
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| (Reply to #60)Coredump00 |
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| #62FallingIcicleAug 24, 2015 15:28:03 |
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| #63Tempest_StormwindAug 24, 2015 15:53:13 |
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| #64StrillAug 24, 2015 23:40:00 |
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| #65Coredump00Aug 25, 2015 0:05:08 | Sorry, I really did think it was self evident... but apparently it isn't.
The damage bonus is equal to your Cha bonus, but no higher than your warlock level.
Warlock Level 2, with Cha 20, each beam does 1D10+2 WL 8, with Cha 16, each beam 1D10+3 WL 4, Cha 18, 1D10+4
For a single class warlock, current 'normal' progression is WL2, Cha 16 +3 WL3, Cha 16, +3 WL4, Cha 18 +4 WL5, Cha 18 +4 . WL8, Cha 20 +5
With my change the only difference would be level 2; it would be +2, +3, +4, etc
But.... it means if you MC into Warlock for 2 levels, each beam will only do 1D10+2. So it really only nerfs those 2 level dips.
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| #66Tempest_StormwindAug 25, 2015 10:56:29 |
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