Hi everybody, pretty much what the title says: a 5th level fighter, when she chooses the Attack Action, can make two attacks on her turn, right? The Action Surge Class Feature seems to give fighters another Action on one turn per combat, substantially, right? What happens when a 5th level Fighter uses the Action Surge feature in a combat and chooses twice the Attack Action? Can she make 4 attacks during that round? if this is so, a 20th level fighter could make 8 attacks during that round! Am I missing something?
Many thanks,
F.G.
Fenn_Grunberg wrote:
Don't forget that if she's Two-Weapon Fighting she adds 1 more attack using her bonus action...
That seems like really poor design. I know it's 20th level, and it might not actually unbalance the game (I've never played it, so I can only speculate), but halting the game so that the fighter can resolve 8 attacks on her turn would really break the flow of the game. I suppose it gives the other players an opportunity for a toilet break....
Some kind of damage-bonus would have been a lot more elegant.
Eldecrynn wrote:
Eldecrynn wrote:
Eldecrynn wrote:
Alynn wrote:
Do keep in mind that Action Surge is kind of a Nova - you are effectively doubling your damage output (and speed) for the round, and can only do that twice before a breather at 20. That does leave the above damage specialist Fighter at 52-76 (av. 64), which remains ahead of our Rogue in optimal position.
Then again, the Rogue probably isn't spendng 45 hp/round to stay in melee (based on the average damage by level I'm borrowing from the concentration thread - and if you're hitting that equal level monster 85% of the time, they can probably do the same). You can SA at range (using your Cunning Action to hide and regain Advantage), or you can Move up, Attack, Cunning Action (Disengage) every round with an ally in melee. Less risk and resource expenditure for lower damage.
Also, consider that Fighter can split the damage across up to 8 targets - or 8 batches of 16 point (avg.) damage, whereas the Wizard can potentially hit larger groups, at longer ranges, for more damage without getting in to the precious lvl6+ slots. 8 attack AS keeps the Damage Focus Fighter damage relevant. We'll have to see what the final version of the Assasin subclass is like in terms of damage boosts or quick kills, but it does look like Rogues are not primary Strikers at high level.
If you think the action surge for fighter slows down combat, then you may as well reduce caster spell slots at higher levels. Because spells will always trump melee actions in general for slowing down combat.
Eldecrynn wrote:
Weeell....the examples were done using the monsters from the playtest package, which I assume must be changed, since they seem very underwhelming.
Furthermore, I maintain that having to resolve 8 separate attack rolls is unnecessarily cumbersome. It's incredibly rare that you'll need to attack 8 different foes, so some (or probably many) of the attacks will be directed at the same foe. A "Power attack" option would have been better, or at least leaner - but that was cut from the playtest long ago....
Remember that the fighter can potentially move between each of those attacks (possibly triggering opportunity attacks) given his movement rate is high enough.
Spellcasting may well slow down combat more, but I didn't know we were looking for more, rather than fewer, ways of slowing down combat....
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
Eldecrynn wrote:
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote: