Extra bonus action / reaction

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

AndyDay

Dec 20, 2014 9:18:25

I love the action economy in 5E. It's a pretty effective way of limiting mechanics. I come wondering: would giving a specific character an extra bonus action be a problem? Would giving an extra reaction? 

#2

mellored

Dec 20, 2014 11:03:44 		it adds alot of power, so generally i wouldn't. but, if there's a specific character concept that really needed it, i might allow it.
#3

Coredump00

Dec 20, 2014 15:36:24

You could also limit it. 

NAME GOES HERE:  The character may take two bonus actions, as long as at least one of them is used for (Fill in the blank) 

#4

AaronOfBarbaria

Dec 20, 2014 17:22:44

Being limited to one reaction is something which certain game elements already have over-ruled for specific circumstances, such as a Marilith being able to make 1 reaction per turn, representing the six-armed demon's stunning coordination of those six arms.

 

Being limited to one bonus action is something which is one of the balancing factors of the game, since a particular character could manage to have numerous potent bonus action options and allowing more than one each round could significantly heighten that character's power.

 

Think of it this way: numerous people looking for the most powerful character they can manage have elected to always include 2 levels of fighter in order to get Action Surge, and an additional bonus action would be nearly (if not more) appealing to such a player.

#5

BRJN

Dec 23, 2014 14:50:40

Coredump00 wrote:
#6

mellored

Dec 23, 2014 16:33:34 		Giving fighters an extra OA is reasonable. They could use it.
(Reply to #6)

Rhenny

mellored wrote:
#8

BRJN

Dec 24, 2014 10:44:56

-Weapon- of Retribution: While wielding this weapon, when you are Attacked by another creature, hit or miss, you gain an extra Reaction that must immediately be used to Attack the triggering creature.  Bonuses that normally can be chained onto an Attack action may not be employed (Sneak Attack, Extra Attack, Flurry of Blows, &c).  This enchantment can be placed on any one-handed martial melee weapon.

 

In effect, if somebody swings on you in the middle of a fight, you get to MBA them in return.  In theory (getting mobbed) you could get LOTS of attacks before your next turn.

This is intended to be an upgrade of the 4e Defender Weapon above.

#9

Rhenny

Dec 24, 2014 10:57:13

What would you add to the feat to make it a 5e style feat if this were the rule for extra OAs?

 

 

"Reactive Opportunist": Gain 1 extra reaction per turn.  At level 11, gain 2 extra reactions. 

 

 

#10

mellored

Dec 24, 2014 17:43:43

Rhenny wrote:
#11

BRJN

Dec 24, 2014 18:04:22

Another potential mechanism would be a Warlord class power:

Give up your own Attack in exchange for giving an ally (or multiple allies within some short range) one extra Reaction, which must be used before the time limit (however long - EoYNT? ther next turn? one minute?) runs out.  Power recharges on short rest.

 

He can exhort everybody to a full-out effort, but he can't give the group Repeated Mass Double Attack, so to speak.  Should be about as effective as casting Haste on his friends.  (AFB so I don't know how that works.)

#12

BRJN

Dec 24, 2014 18:09:09

mellored wrote:
#13

mellored

Dec 24, 2014 20:02:49 		barbarians and paladins get bonus damage on OA's. monks can spend ki to boost or stun. fighters get nothing.
#14

Coredump00

Dec 24, 2014 20:36:50

Could just add it to one of the 'lesser' fighting styles...

 

 

#15

AndyDay

Dec 25, 2014 10:14:38

An extra bonus action would be potent, but I don't know that I would avoid it just because power gamers would like it. 

 

The question is: would it be better than alternatives? And the only way to know that is to contrive a way to get it. 

 

So here is a try. It's a feat. 

 

COMBAT EXPERTISE: you may use this feat a number of times equal to your intelligence modifier (minimum 1), uses refresh after a rest. You may use once per round to gain an additional bonus action. 

 

Is is that better than other feats? 

#16

mellored

Dec 25, 2014 16:45:14 		Yes. Combine it with crossbow expertise and you have 7-9 attacks per round.
#17

Coredump00

Dec 25, 2014 20:26:23

How?  At best it would be one extraa attack.

 

And I don't think it would even give that.  xbow expert, as well as a lot of abilities/feats, allow for a bonus action based on a contingency.  Xbow expert lets you use *a* bonus action to attack.  If you were allowed to take 5 bonus actions... it would not change how many attacks.

 

What it would do is lets a Rogue with xbow expert to use cunning action and take the extra attack.

 

 

#18

mellored

Dec 26, 2014 8:39:20 		Oh, sorry I miss read that. If it was per long rest, then it would be Ok, for general use. though i still would limit who takes it.
#19

AndyDay

Dec 28, 2014 11:22:06

Getting a few extra attacks wouldn't break the game I don't think. I'd worry more about things like being able to cast more spells. Or Monks, who get a bevvy of bonus action options, getting to do tons of sweet stuff. But I still cannot think of any sort of "exploit" that would "break" the game. After all, you have to invest in Intelligence to get a big bang for the feat, and INT is the dump-stat of 5E.

#20

mellored

Dec 28, 2014 11:36:22 		Right, a few extra attacks per day based on a usually unused stat seems about right. And while iI don't readily see any broken combo's, it's a mechanic that just begs for a comb, so you need to keep an eye on it.
#21

Coredump00

Dec 28, 2014 13:39:22

Just remember that most things that allow for a bonus action, only trigger once, not an indefintie number of times. 

So a two weapon rogue with 2 bonus actions could use Attack Action, then get an extra attack from TWF and Dash with Cunning Action... but could not take 2 extra attacks from TWF. 

 

 

#22

mellored

Dec 28, 2014 16:03:02

You can also polearm master + great weapon master. Or flurry of blows + crossbow expertise. Or quicken spell + TWF. plenty of good options, but nothing i see as broken, at least not anymore then lucky.
which might actually be a better option. rather then Into, make it a flat 3/long rest. Or 1/short rest.

#23

Avross

Dec 28, 2014 16:08:09

mellored wrote:
#24

Horwath

Dec 29, 2014 1:52:04

Feat;

Improved dual wielder;

requires; extra attack, dual wielder,

 

when you take extra action to attack with your off hand,you can attack twice with the off hand.

you gain extra reaction per turn but only for AoO with your off hand.

#25

BRJN

Dec 30, 2014 10:19:07

AndyDay wrote:
#26

mellored

Dec 30, 2014 13:23:28 		using a bonus action spell prevents any other spell except cantrips. Though spirital weapon spam comes to mind. Still that's probably ok.
#27

Bloodscythe

Dec 30, 2014 13:39:51

I don't understand why it would be needed.  The game seems fairly balanced as is, and adding another bonus action to characters just prolongs each combat round.  The point of the rules is to make combat streamlined.

 

As far as "fighters get nothing.", they get twice the attacks of any other class except monks but monks are limited by ki points whereas fighters aren't limited at all, action surge which boosts their attacks further, can self heal more efficiently than any other class, and have access to 2 more feats or potentially 4 more stat increases than any other class... I think fighters do alright with "nothing".

 

Admittedly, I'm taking what was said out of context, since it was regarding OAs, but consider: the claim that they get nothing regarding OAs seems incorrect... a champion fighter has a higher chance to crit with all attack rolls, even OAs, and a battle master fighter can use a combat maneuver during any attack, including OAs.  Not sure about eldritch knights, but I'm sure they have something fun in their bag of tricks as well.

#28

AndyDay

Jan 04, 2015 12:25:41

Bloodscythe wrote: