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| #1Byakugan01Mar 04, 2015 4:10:37 | Over in another thread there has been a bit of discussion about this spell. But google didn't find me any good threads about it. I was curious what folks think. Thanks in advance for your input. Keep in mind, this is not a 'I want to break the world' thread. Not trying to create infinite gold or diamonds out of coal or anything. (saving some gold however seems like a good idea)
There seems to be a lot of disagreement over what the spell can and cannot create, and to what lengths someone would have to use to use it.
It turns out it is actually a complicated spell. Because it uses words that are not defined well, and are highly subjective.
So, what can you fabricate? And what do you need to do it? It says you CAN craft items requiring a high degree of skill to make, so pretend u have all the proficiencies needed, because that is a whole different argument.
1. Can you fabricate a copy of a book? 1b. Can you fabricate a copy of a book in a different language? 1c. Can you fabricate a copy of your spellbook? If so how much does it cost?
2. What is required to make armor? I read it as 'you can turn metal and leather into armor'. as in you could use raw unrefined ore, and a dead cow, or an vat of molten iron, or metal ingots, or a set of metal armor plus a set of leather armor to make plate armor.
3. Can you Fabricate food? Such as making bread out of flour, water, eggs and milk(or whatever goes into bread)? Can you make a cooked chicken? Can it be hot or cold?
4. What other interesting things have you thought to make? |
| #2melloredMar 04, 2015 5:46:42 | IMO: You can craft anything you would normally be able to craft by hand. Just quicker.
Personally, i would allow the equivelent of 1 work day (~8 hours) of crafting per cast.
So, assuming you know how to smelt, tan, and smith, it might take a few castings to make armor.
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| #3AaronOfBarbariaMar 04, 2015 7:08:46 |
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| #4lawrencehoyMar 04, 2015 10:05:38 | 1. I agree with Aaron on this; not to mention the fact that a spellbook should be considered a magic item.
2. The caster would have to have the appropriate artisan tool proficiency (leatherworker's or smith's tools), in addition to the raw materials, to fabricate armor. As Aaron stated, existing armor is not raw material, it has been forged/formed into a finished product already.
3. I see no reason why the spell couldn't be used to turn raw materials into edible food. |
| #5KalaniMar 04, 2015 10:39:23 | With that being said - while it is by no means official, Skerrit (one of the DndAL admins) has stated he see's no problem in fabricating a captured spellbook (or a copy of your own spellbook), complete with the spells.....
It wouldn't let them fast track or skip the process of learning the spells in any way, as they still have to decipher, practice, and then copy the spell into their own spellbook. Likewise, you don't need to know a language in order to transcribe it.
You just need decent calligraphy skills in order to copy the writing method.
IMHO fabricating a book would require the following proficiencies:
Lacking any of these proficiencies would prevent the PC from fabricating the relevant component of the book. |
| #6Tempest_StormwindMar 04, 2015 11:41:35 |
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| #7KalaniMar 04, 2015 12:30:36 |
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| #8Byakugan01Mar 04, 2015 13:45:10 | This is exactly the stuff i was wondering about.
Someone says they want to copy a book, then suddenly you are required to have 3 proficiencies.
The hardest thing to craft would be armor and weapons imo, and you only need smiths tools proficiency for that, according to the spell.
This spell gonna cause a freak out at my AL game lol.
Whats the difference between using a existing set of armor vs bars? If it is considered finished product then you can just dismantle it so then it is no longer finished. Or melt it down or whatever. But that just adds a step.
Also i cant find bookbinders tools in my phb.
And some things are specifically allowed by the spell that arent considered high skill creations such as the 40 foot wooden bridge. And clothes. |
| (Reply to #8)AaronOfBarbaria |
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| #10Tempest_StormwindMar 04, 2015 14:28:54 |
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| #11Byakugan01Mar 04, 2015 15:39:33 | I assume you can already write in any language you have proficiency in. Calligraphers tools are not required.
Likewise, i assume all wizards have the skills required to make diagrams, or symbols, or whatever else that relate to scribing spells....because the spellbook feature describes it. Again no calligraphy required.
Now say you are a wizard with the sage(scribe) background. Seems likely they know how to do such things.
It takes a year to craft plate armor using the crafting rules....that is signifigantly more time than the time it takes to break up an existing item and reuse the parts and cast a 10m spell. |
| #12Byakugan01Mar 11, 2015 3:12:59 | What do you guys think about just using the normal crafting rules for Fabricate? Basically, if you could craft it yourself given a ton of time, then you can craft it with Fabricate in 1 casting?
This would make the formula simple....you need materials worth half the market value(exactly the same as crafting), and can thus avoid arguing about what counts as raw materials in the same way a component pouch eliminates keeping track of a million specific items. Basically, if you are in a place you can buy mundane items you can get 'raw materials'. This also means you can use existing material you have on hand of equivalent value and material...realistically, with time you can break down most things to get useable materials.
I don't personally think making the physical form of a book should require a proficiency. Nor do I think the small piece of leather in a books cover or spine is particularly difficult...Have you ever met the people that work in tanneries? I also don't think a wizard should need a calligraphy proficiency to copy any language he can speak/read. This would include the 'magic language' wizards use to write down their spells, since every one of them knows how to read other wizards spells and translate it to their own. However the actual cost of a spellbook is tough to nail down....A spellbook is only worth what the PHB lists it at, and a Wizard who only has free on level up spells has expended 0 gold to get it to its current form. So you could argue that the market price of a spellbook is next to nothing, or you could argue that it is worth what it would cost you to create a full copy using the process described. Adding up my wizard's spellbook, he currently has 27 levels of spells in his book(soon to be 29). Next level that jumps to 37. To avoid conflict, I would probably err on the side of making spellbooks worthless(ie priceless) to sell, but cost half the stated cost of copying. Going the other way that could make spellbooks the most valuable objects in a game, dwarfing even the value of most magic items. Now I know subjectively to wizards, capturing an enemy spellbook IS the most valuable treasure, I would probably ask my DM if he is comfortable reading it this way.
All of this ensures that nothing of intrinsic value is created for free. If I fabricated a fighter a suit of armor, he would be able to sell it back in the market for a net 0 gain. You can't give people items in AL, but I COULD cast fabricate for him on materials that he purchased.
What do people think about this interpretation? |
| #13KalaniMar 11, 2015 9:15:09 |
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