Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ryoden Aug 31, 2015 8:33:25	Faerie Fire 1st Level evocation Casting Time: 1 action Range:60 feet Components: V Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute Each object in a 2O-foot cube within range is outlined in blue, green, or violet light (your choice).  Any creature in the area when the spell is cast is also outlined in light if it fails a Dexterity saving throw.  For the duration, objects and affected creatures shed dim light in a 10-foot radius.  Any attack roll against an affected creature or object has advantage if the attacker can see it, and the affected creature or object can't benefit from being invisible.   The 1st sentence states that each object in the AOE is outlined in one of three colours.  Due to the full stop I assume that this happens regardless of any save?   2nd sentence goes on to state that they are ALSO outlined in light if they fail a DEX save.   3rd sentence goes on to state that an affected creature sheds light in a 10ft radius.   4th sentence states that any attack roll against an affected creature ....  Now this is my query, regardless of the save the targets are all outlined in a colour, the save is only relevant to the shedding light portion of the spell so does the advantage part of the spell occur regardless of the save or not, if not then what is the point of having them outlined in a colour?    Is this badly worded or am I just nor reading it correctly?
#2 Noctaem Sep 01, 2015 2:42:35	Objects within the area of effect do not get a saving throw against the effect of this spell.  They are simply outlined in the color of your choice as the spell describes.   "ANY CREATURE in the area", you seem to be confusing the difference between objects in the area of effect of the spell and creatures.  For objects see just above here, for creature's they get a dexterity saving throw vs the effect and on a failure they also get outlined in the color of your choice.   The 3rd sentence says that BOTH creatures and objects shed dim light in a 10 foot radius around them.  Again you seem to have missed that the spell is applied in 2 different ways depending on if it's targeting an object or a creature.   The 4th sentence explains that any creature who failed a saving throw or any object affected by the spell (objects don't get a save remember) grant advantage on attacks against them as long as the person attacking can see the target (object or creature).  If a creature succeeds against the save, they don't get outlined in color and so don't grant advantage to attacks because they aren't affected by the spell.  Invisibility no longer grants being unseen on a failed save to be clear since that's a benefit of being under that condition.  So you can be seen, so you do grant advantage.   Hope this helps.
#3 ryoden Aug 31, 2015 9:09:04	thanks, yeah I was somewhat tired when I first read this last night and completetly glossed over the object/creature bit.  Cheers.   Although why they even bothered with the first part is beyond me as it seems redundant mechanically, what possibly use is it to have objects highlighted  in colour?  The glowing light bit could be useful as a light source on several objects I guess but the outline, why?
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 31, 2015 9:21:50	ryoden wrote:
#5 ryoden Aug 31, 2015 10:36:00	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#6 Yunru Aug 31, 2015 10:46:09	You have advanatge against both, since the invisible one can't benefit from it, there's no disadvantage to cancel.
#7 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 10:50:50	Yunru wrote:
#8 Quad_Hund Aug 31, 2015 11:41:31	Noctaem wrote:
#9 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 11:51:59	Quad_Hund wrote:
#10 Yunru Aug 31, 2015 11:52:07	It'd be like if my flesh were invisible: it's not going to help me any due to the floating outline of skin showing exactly where I am.
#11 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 12:08:39	some Octopus species are amazing at hiding in their environment, basically being able to become invisible for all intensive purposes.  However if you had one trying to be "invisible" that way but had glowing colored flames harmlessly making it shed bright light I'm pretty sure you would be able to see it without any issue at all and it would effectively lose all the benefits of not being seen.
#12 jaelis Aug 31, 2015 12:37:39	Yunru wrote:
#13 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 31, 2015 12:54:01	Faerie Fire has two effects, if you look at it. One effect is granting advantage. The second effect is removing the benefit from invisibility (which is imposing disadvantage). Since the disadvantage is no longer present, and advantage is added, you have advantage.   That said, I'd also prefer it as Jaelis describes.
#14 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 13:26:46	3rd is to make the targets shed dim light in a 10 foot radius.
#15 Greenstone.Walker Aug 31, 2015 13:58:32	ryoden wrote:
#16 Quad_Hund Aug 31, 2015 14:47:57	Noctaem wrote:
#17 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 14:59:56	Invisible benefit:  You can't be seen.  (read the phb under the conditions section like I told you earlier and see what the benefits of being invisible are)   You can't benefit from being invisible:  You can be seen.  You don't cause attacks against you to be at disadvantage, you can't roll stealth to hide, you don't have advantage on attacks against others, etc..   You're interpretation isn't strict, it's outright nonsensical.  You can't say you still can't be seen if you have something that stops you from being able to not be seen lol..  By your logic Hold Person doesn't stop you from doing anything, you can still do all the things you want to do regardless of being affected by it.  Same for anything else really.  You can't do x because you have y affecting you, "nope I still can".  Ok then...
#18 Avross Aug 31, 2015 16:07:44	Per the basic rules, if one or more sources grant you advantage, and one or more sources inflict disadvantage, then you have neither:   Basic Rules, p57 wrote:
#19 JackOfAllTirades Aug 31, 2015 16:25:06	Noctaem wrote:
(Reply to #19) Yunru	JackOfAllTirades wrote:
#21 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 16:50:26	JackOfAllTirades wrote:
#22 Noctaem Aug 31, 2015 16:52:54	Avross wrote:
#23 JackOfAllTirades Sep 01, 2015 0:04:38	Noctaem wrote:
#24 Noctaem Sep 01, 2015 2:43:24	Not sure what you're talking about, I fixed the post when you first mentioned it.  I added a bit more to it to make it more clear now like the bit about invis.
(Reply to #23) Yunru	JackOfAllTirades wrote:
#26 Noctaem Sep 01, 2015 3:57:02	Right, which is why I'm confused as to why he keeps bringing it up, thought he meant the typo in the sentence (which I fixed) but now I'm not sure lol
#27 Quad_Hund Sep 01, 2015 9:27:42	Noctaem wrote:
#28 Noctaem Sep 01, 2015 10:16:22	Quad_Hund wrote:
#29 JackOfAllTirades Sep 01, 2015 11:12:32	Yunru wrote:
#30 Noctaem Sep 01, 2015 11:24:30	JackOfAllTirades wrote:
(Reply to #16) Bloodscythe	Quad_Hund wrote:
#32 Wuzzard Sep 01, 2015 19:03:49	I interpreted the rule to mean that you only get advantage if you can see it (the affected creature or object).  But the fiery outline of the creature is not the creature, so you wouldn't get advantage on an invisible creature, you would just also not have disadvantage.  So you'd be able to attack invisible creatures normally (without disadvantage) and for those creatures that were already visible, you'd get the added benefit of having advantage.  But I suppose, the part about seeing it, could be there to imply that something out of line of sight, behind cover, within magical darkness, etc, would not be seen, so therefore wouldn't get the advantage.
#33 Undrhil Sep 01, 2015 20:07:20	Just remember, if you cast Faerie Fire and the affected creatures are inside a Fog Cloud, they are not granting advantage since you cannot see them.  My 2cp.
#34 Noctaem Sep 02, 2015 3:57:58	Undrhil wrote:
#35 Kahless Sep 02, 2015 5:55:02	It doesn't take a whole lot to reduce invisibility to visibility.   Let's take the classic example from D&D and use the bag of flour, or what you see in movies, dumping paint or something on the invisible character. All you need to be able to make out is center mass. You don't need to see the color of their hat. And fairie fire isn't just outlining them. It's COVERING them. Every surface of their body and equipment is glowing. That gives you a really clear center mass.   Now, if someone wants to make called shots, it might be more difficult, but hitting center mass, which is what you're assumed to be doing, really isn't.
#36 Quad_Hund Sep 02, 2015 8:15:21	Noctaem wrote:
#37 Noctaem Sep 02, 2015 8:30:46	I guess I just don't understand why you would refuse to go read the condition section of the PHB and look for invisibility there to see what the listed benefits are.  Basically you're refusing to learn and instead are deciding to stick with something that's incorrect.  All you have to do literally is read the rule book for the game you're trying to discuss.  I don't get it.  Being unseen is listed there as a benefit of being invisible.    Anyway I hope everyone can see just how nonsensical what you're saying is at this point.  I won't be replying to you anymore.