Fear spell with with immobile effects. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Helnam Jun 11, 2015 11:24:21	So the fear spell is pretty powerful on its own seeing how it doesn't allow for a save every turn unless they're out of LoS. Now what does the creature do if they cannot move due to grapple, sentinel feat, or any other type of immobility. It says they have to take the dash action. Also what if they're stuck in a dead end? Do they just sit there and quiver in fear while you beat of them for 10 turns? Oh also, a side question for many spells. Spells that read something along the line of "if they fail the save they are frightened/charmed for the duration" and then a later line "while frightened/charmed by this spell x effect happens". In these cases they suffer both from the frightened or charmed condition (appendix A) as well as the unique effect of the spell right?
#2 mellored Jun 11, 2015 12:36:59	It does not dash or move away if there is no place to move. So it's free to do whatever it wants with it's action. Including attack, dodge, cast a spell, or find some way to block line of sight. Though it still can't move closer, has disvantage on attacks per the normal frightned condition, and dropped whatever it was holding. So yes, if you frighten a melee only guy into a corner (or a bow guy who dropped his bow), you can simply throw fireballs at it for 10 turns while it dodges. Oh also, a side question for many spells. Spells that read something along the line of "if they fail the save they are frightened/charmed for the duration" and then a later line "while frightened/charmed by this spell x effect happens". In these cases they suffer both from the frightened or charmed condition (appendix A) as well as the unique effect of the spell right?
#3 OoftaMeg Jun 11, 2015 12:40:35	If they can't use the dash, they can do whatever action they could normally take as long as they don't move closer to the caster. Of course they also have the normal frightened condition disadvantages.
#4 Helnam Jun 11, 2015 20:36:56	I would agree if the target could not Dash but my argument is if they can dash or not. Both Sentinel and Restrained say their speed becomes 0. Sentinel says "for the rest of the turn" and Restrained says "they cannot benefit from any bonus to its speed". Now, the wording on Dash says you gain extra movement equal to your speed after applying any modifiers and goes on to give an example to reiterate my later point. So if your speed is zero and you take the Dash action you would just gain zero extra movement speed. Because gaining zero speed is not a "bonus" it would not count as a "benefit to your speed" because it didn't change what so ever. Also gaining zero speed from zero still keeps the movement at zero not breaking the Sentinel rule of "0 for the rest of the turn". So why can they not take the dash action? Also with it being cornered, that's fairly ambiguous. Fear says they "must take the dash action and move away from you by the safest available rout. So why just because they can't do one of those things stops them from doing both? They can still take the dash action just can't really move farther away from me. Although designers say specific rules supersede general rules. The general rule for frightened is that a creature can't move toward whatever is frightening it but the specific rule of fear says it must take the safest available rout. This might be a case where it can move in your direction if it is the safest rout away from you. Am I crazy here trying to make a spell more powerful then it is by picking words apart or is this legit? Pasting all needing information below to save you fine people some time flipping pages. D a s h When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any m odifiers. With a speed o f 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash. Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed o f 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash. Se n t in e l You have mastered techniques to take advantage o f every drop in any enemy’s guard, gaining the following benefits: • When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn. R e s t r a in e d • A restrained creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed. F e a r 3rd-level illusion Casting Time: 1 action Range: Sel f (30-foot cone) Components: V, S, M (a white feather or the heart o f a hen) Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute You project a phantasmal image o f a creature’s worst fears. Each creature in a 30-foot cone must succeed on a W isdom saving throw or drop whatever it is holding and become frightened for the duration. While frightened by this spell, a creature must take the Dash action and move away from you by the safest available route on each o f its turns, unless there is nowhere to move. If the creature ends its turn in a location where it doesn’t have line o f sight to you, the creature can make a W isdom saving throw. On a successful save, the spell ends for that creature.
#5 jaelis Jun 11, 2015 20:45:52	Looks to me like the target must take the dash action unless there is nowhere to move. If your speed is zero I'd say there is nowhere to move, since you can't move anywhere. So then your action isn't constrianed.
#6 lawrencehoy Jun 11, 2015 22:56:57	jaelis wrote:
#7 BRJN Jun 12, 2015 19:59:25	Look up the Paladin's Channel Divinities that cause fey / fiends / undead / &c to run away from him. The situations are similar but not exactly alike. As DM: Generally, the target runs away if he can, dodges attacks if he can, and tries to break grapples / overcome restraints if he must. Only when all the "scared" kinds of actions are impossible does he steel himself to try to do something else.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Helnam

Jun 11, 2015 11:24:21

So the fear spell is pretty powerful on its own seeing how it doesn't allow for a save every turn unless they're out of LoS. Now what does the creature do if they cannot move due to grapple, sentinel feat, or any other type of immobility. It says they have to take the dash action. Also what if they're stuck in a dead end? Do they just sit there and quiver in fear while you beat of them for 10 turns?

Oh also, a side question for many spells. Spells that read something along the line of "if they fail the save they are frightened/charmed for the duration" and then a later line "while frightened/charmed by this spell x effect happens". In these cases they suffer both from the frightened or charmed condition (appendix A) as well as the unique effect of the spell right?

mellored

Jun 11, 2015 12:36:59

It does not dash or move away if there is no place to move. So it's free to do whatever it wants with it's action. Including attack, dodge, cast a spell, or find some way to block line of sight.

Though it still can't move closer, has disvantage on attacks per the normal frightned condition, and dropped whatever it was holding.

So yes, if you frighten a melee only guy into a corner (or a bow guy who dropped his bow), you can simply throw fireballs at it for 10 turns while it dodges.

Oh also, a side question for many spells. Spells that read something along the line of "if they fail the save they are frightened/charmed for the duration" and then a later line "while frightened/charmed by this spell x effect happens". In these cases they suffer both from the frightened or charmed condition (appendix A) as well as the unique effect of the spell right?

OoftaMeg

Jun 11, 2015 12:40:35

If they can't use the dash, they can do whatever action they could normally take as long as they don't move closer to the caster.

Of course they also have the normal frightened condition disadvantages.

Helnam

Jun 11, 2015 20:36:56

I would agree if the target could not Dash but my argument is if they can dash or not. Both Sentinel and Restrained say their speed becomes 0. Sentinel says "for the rest of the turn" and Restrained says "they cannot benefit from any bonus to its speed". Now, the wording on Dash says you gain extra movement equal to your speed after applying any modifiers and goes on to give an example to reiterate my later point. So if your speed is zero and you take the Dash action you would just gain zero extra movement speed. Because gaining zero speed is not a "bonus" it would not count as a "benefit to your speed" because it didn't change what so ever. Also gaining zero speed from zero still keeps the movement at zero not breaking the Sentinel rule of "0 for the rest of the turn". So why can they not take the dash action?

Also with it being cornered, that's fairly ambiguous. Fear says they "must take the dash action and move away from you by the safest available rout. So why just because they can't do one of those things stops them from doing both? They can still take the dash action just can't really move farther away from me. Although designers say specific rules supersede general rules. The general rule for frightened is that a creature can't move toward whatever is frightening it but the specific rule of fear says it must take the safest available rout. This might be a case where it can move in your direction if it is the safest rout away from you.

Am I crazy here trying to make a spell more powerful then it is by picking words apart or is this legit? Pasting all needing information below to save you fine people some time flipping pages.

D a s h
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra
movement for the current turn. The increase equals
your speed, after applying any m odifiers. With a speed
o f 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your
turn if you dash.
Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this
additional movement by the same amount. If your speed
o f 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can
move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash.

Se n t in e l
You have mastered techniques to take advantage
o f every drop in any enemy’s guard, gaining the
following benefits:
• When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack,
the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of
the turn.

R e s t r a in e d
• A restrained creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can’t
benefit from any bonus to its speed.

F e a r
3rd-level illusion
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Sel f (30-foot cone)
Components: V, S, M (a white feather or the
heart o f a hen)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You project a phantasmal image o f a creature’s worst
fears. Each creature in a 30-foot cone must succeed on
a W isdom saving throw or drop whatever it is holding
and become frightened for the duration.
While frightened by this spell, a creature must take
the Dash action and move away from you by the safest
available route on each o f its turns, unless there is
nowhere to move. If the creature ends its turn in a
location where it doesn’t have line o f sight to you,
the creature can make a W isdom saving throw. On a
successful save, the spell ends for that creature.

jaelis

Jun 11, 2015 20:45:52

Looks to me like the target must take the dash action unless there is nowhere to move. If your speed is zero I'd say there is nowhere to move, since you can't move anywhere. So then your action isn't constrianed.

lawrencehoy

Jun 11, 2015 22:56:57

jaelis wrote:

BRJN

Jun 12, 2015 19:59:25

Look up the Paladin's Channel Divinities that cause fey / fiends / undead / &c to run away from him. The situations are similar but not exactly alike.

As DM: Generally, the target runs away if he can, dodges attacks if he can, and tries to break grapples / overcome restraints if he must. Only when all the "scared" kinds of actions are impossible does he steel himself to try to do something else.