Great weapon master is overpowered

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

J.Trudel

Sep 24, 2014 9:45:33

Is it just me or great weapons builts outclass by FAR every other builts out there as far as combat is involved ? We got Barbarians and Fighters who can easily output a good 80 damage per round at level 20 without expanding ressources while other buitls or classes would most likelly end up in the 30-40 damage range. 

#2

Sorxores

Sep 24, 2014 9:55:39

but Great weapon user have no defense, they use Strenght so lower Dex so lower AC, two weapon fighting give extra AC (with the feat) and can use Dex (extra AC), duelist can equip a shield, archer are at distance, the rogue can hide, ect...

#3

1eejit

Sep 24, 2014 9:56:57

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #3)

J.Trudel

1eejit wrote:
#5

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 10:23:07

J.Trudel wrote:
#6

J.Trudel

Sep 24, 2014 10:41:44

mellored wrote:
#7

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 11:13:20

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #6)

FrogReaver

J.Trudel wrote:
#9

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 11:04:52

You mean you're basing your argument on the damage per round output of builds from the DPR Kings thread?

That's like saying "Lizards are overpowered because look at what Godzilla can do."

You can't take a build built around maximizing DPR using everything available to them, and then say one part of the build is OP because of the whole.

When you add in the accuracy drop, GWF's -5/+10 adds about 3.5 DPR per attack, the same as Hex. Does that make Hex OP?

(Reply to #9)

FrogReaver

Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #7)

FrogReaver

mellored wrote:
#12

J.Trudel

Sep 24, 2014 11:55:28

If you take into consideration that an Ancient Red Dragon has ''only'' 22 AC. Then by no means a 20 AC can be considered as ''low''. And 80 damage per round is too high which makes other weapon builts under powered even when you take into consideration that they can give you a better AC. Accounting that ''power attack'' account for around12 damage per round on what is arguably already the most powerfull weapon. It's a bit overkill, or so I think. 

 

Try to do other builds that use only single hand weapons and you'll see for yourself. 

#13

Noctaem

Sep 24, 2014 12:02:46

Your premise is flawed to begin with, they expended quite a bit of "resources" to be able to get those damage numbers.  And as actual MATH shows you, it's really not something overpowered when you take into account what this actual entails.

#14

J.Trudel

Sep 24, 2014 12:04:47

Yunru wrote:
#15

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 12:07:51

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #13)

J.Trudel

Noctaem wrote:
(Reply to #15)

J.Trudel

mellored wrote:
#18

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 12:19:09

J.Trudel wrote:
#19

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 12:20:55

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #18)

J.Trudel

mellored wrote:
#21

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 12:28:42

I think the flying Dragon Sorcerer with Hex running, double-casting Eldritch Blast each turn will completely decimate a Great Weapon build in a 1v1.

 

Well, to be more accurate, I think the flying Dragon Sorcerer (so lvl 14), will decimate any build without a ranged option.

#22

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 12:31:33

J.Trudel wrote:
#23

Saelorn

Sep 24, 2014 12:32:37

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #21)

J.Trudel

Yunru wrote:
#25

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 12:35:41

J.Trudel wrote:
#26

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 12:37:27

Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue [7/11/2] Grappler Bear Totem BattleMaster Assassin Vs great weapon wielding barbarian:

Grappler attacks, substitutes first attack for shove, attacks with second and third, uses Disarming Strike, free item interaction to throw away their weapon, grabs as a bonus action.

Grappler wins.

(Reply to #23)

J.Trudel

Saelorn wrote:
#28

Timborama

Sep 24, 2014 12:40:27

Wish Spell...?

 

(sorry, I wanted to contribute too!)

#29

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 12:42:37

J.Trudel wrote:
#30

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 12:43:36

Magic user casts True Polymorph on the Barbarian. Cue Save-Or-Brick. Barbarian has to pass a Wis saving throw, or be turned into a brick and tossed into a lake.

(Reply to #30)

J.Trudel

Yunru wrote:
#32

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 12:52:20

So this one?

Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #32)

J.Trudel

Yunru wrote:
#34

Yunru

Sep 24, 2014 13:14:09

A grapple with double proficiency and advantage.

#35

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 13:47:11

J.Trudel wrote:
#36

Noctaem

Sep 24, 2014 14:25:19

I feel like I should just point to my earlier post...

#37

kilpatds

Sep 24, 2014 14:37:47

(The barb is assumed to have a magic belt of giant strength?  Is that the only magic item?  How does a sword of +1d6 damage change the calculation?  Is anyone else assumed to have equivilently busted magic items?  Are you sure this isn't a case of "too good magic item", and misappropriating the resulting blame?)

(Reply to #37)

onceMoreIntoBreech

kilpatds wrote:
#39

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 16:05:31

kilpatds wrote:
#40

mellored

Sep 24, 2014 19:08:34

Lipfi wrote:
#41

BW0222

Sep 24, 2014 23:22:33

J.Trudel wrote:
#42

J.Trudel

Sep 25, 2014 5:44:06

BW0222 wrote:
#43

Noctaem

Sep 25, 2014 5:52:13

Well you can have a shield while using the duelist style first off.  And second it's because of the things you trade in exchange.  This has already been explained to you.  You seem to be under the impression that you don't lose anything by going for pure DPR.  You most definetly do!

#44

mellored

Sep 25, 2014 6:34:02

J.Trudel wrote:
#45

obsid

Sep 25, 2014 6:25:06

Polearm Master and Sentanal Feats are just as strong as Great Weapon Fighting (Alert, is also fairly good in most builds).

#46

J.Trudel

Sep 25, 2014 6:45:39

Noctaem wrote:
#47

slaughterj

Sep 25, 2014 6:49:32

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #47)

J.Trudel

slaughterj wrote:
(Reply to #48)

Bloodscythe

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #42)

BW0222

J.Trudel wrote:
(Reply to #50)

J.Trudel

BW0222 wrote:
#52

LongTimeLurker

Sep 26, 2014 1:32:45

Yeah but let's face it, almost nobody actually "hits 20". The overwhelming majority of 20th level chars will be those who started at level 20. For those that didn't start at 20, 99% of the campaigns will end before someone reaches 20. Heck, if you play-by-post, most of those end before level 2.

​

​It's an exceedingly rare circumstance where you'll actually get to experience levelling up to 20th. If you are lucky enough to get to do that, congratulations, you earned it.

​

​And you'll have earned an entire story and series of memories to go with it. Your character will be defined by the heroic events that allowed them to reach this stage. What you won't be defined by, is the 32 DPR your non-munchkin build puts out.

​

​Years from now, when you wax nostalgic and tell stories from this campaign, "remember all those rounds I did 32 damage?" Is NOT going to be what you reminisce about with your buddies.

 

Most likely, someone's going to have done something stupid along the way and nobody ever lets them forget it, cause that's what gamer friends are like.  "Hey Mike, is lava hot? I forget, is it okay to swim across a lake of it in plate mail?" *everybody else laughs again, Mike sighs*

​

#53

FrogReaver

Sep 26, 2014 2:00:03

The feat itself is not overpowerd.  The -5 attack and +10 damage is.  The same can be said for that portion of the sharpshooter feat.  

 

A good DM will either give all wepaon users a feat that has that kind of effect or will ban any of them from having it (or heck he might even give it to them all for free).  It stupidly imbalances what should be similiar options since only some weapon users get access to something like that.

 

 

(Reply to #51)

FrogReaver

J.Trudel wrote:
#55

Yunru

Sep 26, 2014 2:19:43 		No respectable DPR build "assumes" advantage. They either have a way to grant themselves Advantage and thus calculate it, or they don't so they don't.
(Reply to #55)

FrogReaver

Yunru wrote:
#57

Yunru

Sep 26, 2014 2:31:49 		Well done, you've managed to quote the statement I was calling incorrect.
(Reply to #55)

1eejit

Yunru wrote:
#59

mellored

Sep 26, 2014 5:46:02

All the high damage builds take damage feats.

All the high defensive builds take defensive feats.

 

 

Seems to be working as intended.