Hey guys,
I did a Halfling Lightfoot Rogue, actually level 5.
I need some Help in this: my DM says I can't Hide after enter in Combat, even if I stay out of line of view of enemys (eg: behind barrel, wall, tree, in the shadow, etc)
He says with after enter in combat, no one can try hide, because rules say it.
In my opinion, the rules in PH not say exactly this, and need to show that my DM is wrong when using this rules to my Char. Even, because if the DM is right, the ability to hide of the Halflings and Elves would not be useless.
Any point of view to show to my DM?
TY
In 5E, the rules for hiding are largely in the hands of the DM. If he says you cannot hide, then you cannot hide.
we had this scene:
I: I do an attack [standard action], move behind a cart (or barrel, or tree, or something in area...) [move action] and use Hide [Cunning Action] my character hides behind a cart (provide full cover).
DM: The enemies are watching you get behind the cart, however you have full coverage, you were seen and they will know that may be threatened from that position.
Novacat wrote:
Hiding adjudication is in the DMs hands in 5e. I agree with your DM that once combat starts, and the enemy is aware of you, it should be very difficult or impossible to hide (depending on all the circumstances).
I've tried using other strategies to change the situation, and the DM also not allow.
I did all the actions I mentioned earlier. (attack, move, hide behind somewhere to gain full coverage).
In the next turn I tried to use Stealthy to exit the origin point (as the enemy hoped I attacked that point), I went to another point, and used the Attack. Supposedly, if I passed the Stealthy check, should be hidden in the attack, correct? Since the enemy would be waiting for the attack point I hid, but the DM does not accept that too.
It would be a more balanced way, since I attack a round with all the advantages, and the next I would spend all actions for new advantage at the end of this second round I would not be hidden, and the next round start all over again.
It would not be valid it too? Since I left the point that the enemy was waiting for me and attacked another unexpected point.
I tend to go with Slyck314's interpretation. If there is a lot of obscurement and/or cover to hide, then I would rule that it's OK to try (opposed Stealth check) each round, but if the environment is barer, then the hiding is pretty much over.
vithort wrote:
They're not incredibly marginal, but it's far from a major class feature. If a rogue needed Advantage in order to use Sneak Attack, then it would probably count as a major class feature.
In general, though, I would say that no class is intended to have Advantage on most of their attacks. Even the barbarian suffers a major drawback when doing so. It wouldn't break the game or anything, of course, but it would tie the rogue into hiding pretty much every round, which seems like a huge waste of the other potential uses of Cunning Action.
vithort wrote:
Plaguescarred4 wrote:
vithort wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
Thank you guys,
For me it is difficult to make a Rogue Melee in the adventures of my DM, as the Rogue's PVs are "low" and usually when I take attacks my life is going to almost 1/4 in the first received attack. (in 3 battles that went to the melee, 2 I fell on the first stroke [more than 35 points of damage] and another was seriously injured).
So I insist on ranged combat and try to use all the benefits for me.
I think not being able to use the Advantage in combat in favor of Rogue (not the whole round, to balance the game) affect the gameplay with the class.
Compared to other classes, see the Rogue does not receive many benefits and is impaired in Combat.
Thanks for the opinion of you.
So does your DM also not let you hide behind allies as a halfling? Sounds like the DM is just totally against hiding in combat and is houseruling that it doesn't work as it does. Plaguescarred said it very well:
Plaguescarred4 wrote:
I didn't say the DM is always right (as i don't believe its true anyway) what i say is a DM can make all the calls he want. But i agree with you this should be discussed between players & DM and hopefully come to better terms.
Saelorn wrote:
vithort wrote:
vithort wrote:
Nexus6 wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
Saelorn wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
DungeonKrusher wrote:
I had a similar situation. Rogue used a corner of a house as cover. He shoots his bow at a target engaged with another party member. He hides behind the house. He rolls well on his stealth. He moves from behind cover and shoots his bow from the same spot he had the previous round. I ruled no advantage as the arrow was coming from the same location six seconds later.
The player expected to get advantage but I told him the above. Now, if he stayed hidden and people moved around the house to find him I'd have ruled him hidden. If there were some other targets 20 or so feet away that weren't paying particular attention as to where the arrow had come from the previous round, I'd have ruled a shot at them would have had advantage. They might have known the general location the arrow came from but clearly didn't see where (Passive Perception below Hide roll).
Perhaps I should have used OoftaMeg's "fool me once" thing as it makes the rogue feel like his Cunning Action is useful, but not a one-trick pony that can be used all the time everywhere.
OoftaMeg wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
UngeheuerLich wrote:
Nexus6 wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
I think a lot of people are conflating elements of surprise with hidden sneak attack, including the OP's DM.
You can't get surprise again during combat, as the enemies are aware of you. However it's circumstantially possible to hide again to get a sneak attack. Sneak attacks don't require surprise.
Now the DM is fine in saying that a certain location is insufficient for hiding in or giving a higher DC for it, but saying that you can't hide at all in combat is well beyond RAW.
DungeonKrusher wrote:
vithort wrote:
1eejit wrote:
vithort wrote:
If anything is between you and the target, there is a cover penalty (barring the sharpshooter feat). It doesn't matter if that something is a tree or your paladin ally. It's not an "any time an enemy is in melee" issue.
As far as the hidden/visible ... if you can see the enemy they can see you. There is nothing in 5E that I know of that says that you get advantage if you start your turn hidden, it's if you are hidden when you take the attack.
Obviously there are ways around that and DM's discretion of when an enemy may be distracted. If there's some rule I'm missing let me know.
Noctaem wrote: