Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Noon Feb 04, 2015 22:01:04	How do you imagine a halfling hiding behind a PC? I kind of imagine them sidling around the legs when it's not their turn - rather than moving to a position then freezing until their next turn? I imagine it takes some movement to even hide behind another PC.   Situation was a monster in one direction (say south), halfling shot it with a shortbow and hid behind a PC, with a wall behind the halfling (the wall being to the north. But then another monster sort of just walked up on the west side and automatically sees the halfling.   Playing with minatures - I can't exactly put my figure inside the same square as another figure.
#2 El_Condoro Feb 04, 2015 23:04:17	Naturally Stealthy specifies that "you are obscured (only) by a creature that is at least one size larger than you." If the 'obscurement' is moving, then the halfling would logically be moving too, to remain obscured and be able to (attempt to) hide. The monster coming from the west would not have its vision obscured and should be able to see the halfling, other forms of cover and obscurement notwithstanding. Situationally, if the halfling knew that the monster was there and could possibly move in such a way as to be obscured from both the south and the west one, I'd allow it to attempt to hide, but not if it only knew about the west one. "You can't hide from a creature that can see you" p. 177
#3 Noctaem Feb 05, 2015 4:55:02	From a mechanical point of view, the halfling entry creates an exception to the general rules when it comes to hiding and sight.  Which is the only reason why it works.   From a fluff point of view, it could be quite a few things.  The halfling hiding behind the legs, hanging onto the allies back, etc...   As for the scenario you describe, the monster coming from the west would see the halfling simply because the clause of the racial ability doesn't work, the ally is not in between the halfling and the opponent.  The halfling must be "behind" the ally.  If you have trouble with your mini's get a halfling sized mini :p  I have a few just for that.
#4 Timborama Feb 05, 2015 5:40:33	Noon wrote:
#5 Noon Feb 05, 2015 16:27:50	Thing is, if I put my halfling to the north east square, it'd kind of look like the first monster could still see me.   But surely I could hide from that side as much as if I was hiding behind a tree trunk I could.   To avoid this I put him to the north square and then the west monster comes and finds me instead.   The granulation of hiding is pretty poor when using a grid - it proposes lines of sight which really aren't there if you are hugging an object - does that seem something you might expect a GM would take into account?
#6 El_Condoro Feb 05, 2015 23:48:22	Grids are optional so it's more to do with how the DM adjudicates than how the grid works. I'd just narrate it how it seems best and use the hiding rules whenever there is a reasonable chance that the halfling can hide.
#7 Noctaem Feb 06, 2015 5:07:27	Noon wrote:
#8 strider13x Feb 07, 2015 6:34:26	Combat is dynamic so no one is standing in a 5' space for the full 6 second round. Assume the Halfling is using his Action to actively Hide (thus altering his positions as the ally and enemy shuffle around). Was the Halfling aware or the second creature coming from the West? If not they couldn't be Hiding from them. If so then allow the Hide attempt (maybe apply Disadvantage to Hide only v second creature).
#9 Noctaem Feb 08, 2015 8:05:04	strider13x wrote:
#10 Noon Feb 08, 2015 18:27:25	They aren't 'simply seeing'. If you want to invoke rules of line of sight, sure - but that's abstract rules. Invoking the idea that the halfling is somewhere inside a square means invoking an abstraction. There's no natural 'simply seeing' when it comes to weird abstractionism. You don't get to go half abstract and half naturalistic and pass that off as if that makes perfectly normal sense.   As I've said, I can't show I'm hiding on the north east side of the other PC by how I place myself on the grid - and yet at the same time the text implies I can hide behind another medium PC. At the very least if there was a man wide column in real life you could hug it and someone to the south couldn't  see you and someone moving to the west couldn't see you (and in this example a wall stops them from coming right around from the north). And in real life you woudn't hide behind a column by standing between 3 to 8 feet away from it.   I'd get if someone can see both the abstract and the naturalistic then chooses based on their preference. But mixing abstract with naturalism as if it all makes naturalistic sense? No.   Think of it this way:   Halfling is in the square north of a PC.   You have two enemies on diagnals to the halfling, 20 feet away.   You might say the halfling is hiding because he's behind the PC in such a case. As if he's hiding right in the little gap where the diagnals converge but the PC blocks line of sight.   Okay, now say the halfling is one square diagnally north east of the PC and one monster is 20 feet south on the Y axis and the other is 20 feet west on the X axis. It's the same thing but you're gunna say he's seen, now??   That's like a GM who, if your rogue stands one square inside a doorway, he says someone in the room sees him because they could see the edge of his square or some abstract weirdness (and so your rogue can't do an attack from the door way because he was already seen - as if his back is not to the wall because he's 'somewhere' inside that five foot square)
#11 Noctaem Feb 09, 2015 4:21:57	I think you missed in my earlier post the following:   Noctaem wrote: