House Rule for Sleeping in Armor. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ezrider23 May 31, 2015 12:59:25	Hello illustrious DMs, Players and general commentors, I am having a bit of a back and forth with my Dungeonmaster and we are working towards a houserule for sleeping in armor. His proposal is Sleeping in Light Armor= DC 12 Con Save. Sleeping in Medium= DC 12 w/Disadvantage Con Save. Sleeping in Heavy= Automatic failure. Failure = 1 level of exhaustion. My counter is Sleeping in Light Armor= No check Sleeping in Medium = DC 12 Con Save. Sleeping in Heavy= DC 12 Con Save with disadvantage. Failure = 1 level of exhaustion. Compromise proposal? Sleeping in Light Armor= DC 12 Con Save with Advantage. Sleeping in Medium= DC 12 Con Save. Sleeping in Heavy= DC 12 Con Save with disadvantage. Failure = 1 level of exhaustion. The answer of NO CHECK is not up for discussion really since the DM and I believe that some form of compromise can work for the sake of psuedo realism. Thoughts?
#2 mrpopstar May 31, 2015 13:20:02	An ability check tests innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge, and a saving throw represents an attempt to resist a threat when you are at risk of harm. Personally, I don't feel that either is appropriate for something like this. I would rule that a character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor cannot benefit from a long rest, or rule that a character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor gains one level of exhaustion.
#3 jaelis May 31, 2015 13:22:28	Guess I'd start with a house rule for what happens if you try to go a long time without sleep. But between checks and saves, I'd go with checks.
#4 Noctaem May 31, 2015 13:25:57	jaelis wrote:
#5 OoftaMeg May 31, 2015 14:02:58	I don't implement a penalty for sleeping in armor for a few reasons. First, dex-based characters are hardly inconvenienced, if at all, by not sleeping in armor. Dex based characters already have several advantages over strength based tanks so I don't want to reward them any further. Second, while I've never slept in armor I've slept on very hard and lumpy ground. A few times with all my clothes and boots on (it was much colder than we had anticipated). If armor is comfortable enough to wear all day, it's probably comfortable enough to sleep in. Or to put it another way, why do people think characters that wear armor should be penalized for sleeping in armor? The few postings on this topic from people with actual experience or who have discussed the topic with people who had real experience say it's not an issue. If the group is sleeping in the wilderness or in a dungeon, they aren't going to be particularly comfortable anyway. Do you penalize anybody else for sleeping in a damp cave instead of on a featherbed? Obviously you aren't going to sleep with a helmet on or a shield strapped to your arm.
#6 jaelis May 31, 2015 14:27:39	Noctaem wrote:
#7 Proletheus May 31, 2015 15:08:51	I would strongly advise against sleeping in armor penalties. Why is that? First of all, sleeping in a suit of armor may not be too comfortable but it would be the logical thing to do when in a hostile environment. Secondly, you are essentially saying "you're screwed" to your heavy armor characters when having a night encounter since there is no way to get suited up if something happens; they will just get slaughtered. Since heavy armor isn't superior to other armor forms at daytime I wouldn't penalize it at nighttime.
#8 mrpopstar May 31, 2015 15:20:32	I don't penalize sleeping in armor. My group used to forget about it all the time in the 3rd Edition days, so it never seemed to add anything compelling to the game.
#9 ezrider23 May 31, 2015 15:28:49	I'll revise my initial "No Checks" not an option statement as this seems to be on the table. I was mostly wondering on what other DM's do for their games and whether or not they penalize for sleeping in Armor. I'm inclined to not have it at all but it's not up to me so i was trying to come up with a happy middle ground.
#10 Avross May 31, 2015 15:29:34	The one thing that I might consider doing is simply not allowing a player sleeping in armor to recover from exhaustion. Keeps it simple, makes that ragged pursuit across the wilderness a bit more gritty. A warrior sleeping in their armor isn't that far fetched...there's probably plenty of historical evidence to say that soldiers did it (the romans may have used their shields as pillows).
#11 AaronOfBarbaria May 31, 2015 16:07:53	Why does there have to be a mechanical penalty? Can't you just say "Hey players, I don't really find it to be interesting for your characters to sleep in armor all the time. I'm not going to be using you sleeping in a state of undress as an excuse to try to beat down your characters with random camp encounters of tough monsters, so do you think we can descriptively go with the more believable assumption that your characters sleep in something more comfortable than their armor?" and be done with it? Worked for my group.
#12 ezrider23 May 31, 2015 16:35:58	We've come to a conclusion as a group. No penalties. The ex-soldier in our group has done it with real life experience and was no worse for the wear and it's simpler to deal with. Our DM decided that based on this and the fact that we switched from Pathfinder to avoid the rediculous ammounts of rules crunch that scrapping the Exhaustion idea was the best scenario. Aside from that it just makes logical sense that folks trained in the use of armor would be wearing that armor while traversing dangerous territories filled with all manner of beasties and baddies. Though it could still add an element of "danger" come those scenarios where you are "caught with your pants down" while sleeping in an inn or as a visitor in a castle when intrigue and assasinations may be afoot. Though i guess we'll cross those bridges when we come to them. Thanks for all the input folks.
#13 EthanSental May 31, 2015 18:48:08	The closest I've come would be sleeping in my goalie equipment inbetween games of a weekend hockey tournament. Was a comfortable as a bed, nope, but it wasn't bad either. Woke up, moved around a little and ready to go. Our group doesn't use this either as another person stated, I wouldn't think someone would take off their armor in dangerous areas.
#14 Rya.Reisender Jun 01, 2015 4:52:19	I just allow sleeping in armor, everything else just overcomplicates stuff. If a player insists on taking it off, then I won't stop him, though.
#15 MrHotter Jun 01, 2015 9:00:06	What I can't stand is the player that will always say they are sleeping in armor no matter where they are.
#16 Xuub Jun 01, 2015 13:27:10	For me this depends on the players. It is not necessary for my first group. They are stronger roleplayers and think it would be silly to try to sleep in armor. They are also older and more experienced players and trust my DM skills. My second group likes to try to take advantage of situations. They try to milk the system and tend to try to "always" be wearing armor. I have to be more strict about things. For the second group, I sometimes tell them that in order to complete a long rest while sleeping in armor, they need to make a CON save. The DC is equal to the base AC of the armor. Failure indicates a level of exhaustion. For instance: Leather: DC 11 Hide: DC 12 Scale: DC 14 Chain: DC 16 Plate: DC 18

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ezrider23

May 31, 2015 12:59:25

Hello illustrious DMs, Players and general commentors,

I am having a bit of a back and forth with my Dungeonmaster and we are working towards a houserule for sleeping in armor.

His proposal is

Sleeping in Light Armor= DC 12 Con Save.

Sleeping in Medium= DC 12 w/Disadvantage Con Save.

Sleeping in Heavy= Automatic failure.

Failure = 1 level of exhaustion.

My counter is

Sleeping in Light Armor= No check

Sleeping in Medium = DC 12 Con Save.

Sleeping in Heavy= DC 12 Con Save with disadvantage.

Failure = 1 level of exhaustion.

Compromise proposal?

Sleeping in Light Armor= DC 12 Con Save with Advantage.

Sleeping in Medium= DC 12 Con Save.

Sleeping in Heavy= DC 12 Con Save with disadvantage.

Failure = 1 level of exhaustion.

The answer of NO CHECK is not up for discussion really since the DM and I believe that some form of compromise can work for the sake of psuedo realism.

Thoughts?

mrpopstar

May 31, 2015 13:20:02

An ability check tests innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge, and a saving throw represents an attempt to resist a threat when you are at risk of harm. Personally, I don't feel that either is appropriate for something like this.

I would rule that a character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor cannot benefit from a long rest, or rule that a character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor gains one level of exhaustion.

jaelis

May 31, 2015 13:22:28

Guess I'd start with a house rule for what happens if you try to go a long time without sleep. But between checks and saves, I'd go with checks.

Noctaem

May 31, 2015 13:25:57

jaelis wrote:

OoftaMeg

May 31, 2015 14:02:58

I don't implement a penalty for sleeping in armor for a few reasons.

First, dex-based characters are hardly inconvenienced, if at all, by not sleeping in armor. Dex based characters already have several advantages over strength based tanks so I don't want to reward them any further.

Second, while I've never slept in armor I've slept on very hard and lumpy ground. A few times with all my clothes and boots on (it was much colder than we had anticipated). If armor is comfortable enough to wear all day, it's probably comfortable enough to sleep in.

Or to put it another way, why do people think characters that wear armor should be penalized for sleeping in armor? The few postings on this topic from people with actual experience or who have discussed the topic with people who had real experience say it's not an issue.

If the group is sleeping in the wilderness or in a dungeon, they aren't going to be particularly comfortable anyway. Do you penalize anybody else for sleeping in a damp cave instead of on a featherbed?

Obviously you aren't going to sleep with a helmet on or a shield strapped to your arm.

jaelis

May 31, 2015 14:27:39

Noctaem wrote:

Proletheus

May 31, 2015 15:08:51

I would strongly advise against sleeping in armor penalties. Why is that? First of all, sleeping in a suit of armor may not be too comfortable but it would be the logical thing to do when in a hostile environment. Secondly, you are essentially saying "you're screwed" to your heavy armor characters when having a night encounter since there is no way to get suited up if something happens; they will just get slaughtered. Since heavy armor isn't superior to other armor forms at daytime I wouldn't penalize it at nighttime.

mrpopstar

May 31, 2015 15:20:32

I don't penalize sleeping in armor. My group used to forget about it all the time in the 3rd Edition days, so it never seemed to add anything compelling to the game.

ezrider23

May 31, 2015 15:28:49

I'll revise my initial "No Checks" not an option statement as this seems to be on the table.

I was mostly wondering on what other DM's do for their games and whether or not they penalize for sleeping in Armor.

I'm inclined to not have it at all but it's not up to me so i was trying to come up with a happy middle ground.

#10

Avross

May 31, 2015 15:29:34

The one thing that I might consider doing is simply not allowing a player sleeping in armor to recover from exhaustion. Keeps it simple, makes that ragged pursuit across the wilderness a bit more gritty.

A warrior sleeping in their armor isn't that far fetched...there's probably plenty of historical evidence to say that soldiers did it (the romans may have used their shields as pillows).

#11

AaronOfBarbaria

May 31, 2015 16:07:53

Why does there have to be a mechanical penalty? Can't you just say "Hey players, I don't really find it to be interesting for your characters to sleep in armor all the time. I'm not going to be using you sleeping in a state of undress as an excuse to try to beat down your characters with random camp encounters of tough monsters, so do you think we can descriptively go with the more believable assumption that your characters sleep in something more comfortable than their armor?" and be done with it?

Worked for my group.

#12

ezrider23

May 31, 2015 16:35:58

We've come to a conclusion as a group.

No penalties.

The ex-soldier in our group has done it with real life experience and was no worse for the wear and it's simpler to deal with. Our DM decided that based on this and the fact that we switched from Pathfinder to avoid the rediculous ammounts of rules crunch that scrapping the Exhaustion idea was the best scenario.

Aside from that it just makes logical sense that folks trained in the use of armor would be wearing that armor while traversing dangerous territories filled with all manner of beasties and baddies. Though it could still add an element of "danger" come those scenarios where you are "caught with your pants down" while sleeping in an inn or as a visitor in a castle when intrigue and assasinations may be afoot. Though i guess we'll cross those bridges when we come to them.

Thanks for all the input folks.

#13

EthanSental

May 31, 2015 18:48:08

The closest I've come would be sleeping in my goalie equipment inbetween games of a weekend hockey tournament. Was a comfortable as a bed, nope, but it wasn't bad either. Woke up, moved around a little and ready to go. Our group doesn't use this either as another person stated, I wouldn't think someone would take off their armor in dangerous areas.

#14

Rya.Reisender

Jun 01, 2015 4:52:19

I just allow sleeping in armor, everything else just overcomplicates stuff. If a player insists on taking it off, then I won't stop him, though.

#15

MrHotter

Jun 01, 2015 9:00:06

What I can't stand is the player that will always say they are sleeping in armor no matter where they are.

#16

Xuub

Jun 01, 2015 13:27:10

For me this depends on the players.

It is not necessary for my first group. They are stronger roleplayers and think it would be silly to try to sleep in armor. They are also older and more experienced players and trust my DM skills.
My second group likes to try to take advantage of situations. They try to milk the system and tend to try to "always" be wearing armor. I have to be more strict about things.

For the second group, I sometimes tell them that in order to complete a long rest while sleeping in armor, they need to make a CON save. The DC is equal to the base AC of the armor. Failure indicates a level of exhaustion. For instance:

Leather: DC 11
Hide: DC 12
Scale: DC 14
Chain: DC 16
Plate: DC 18