How Do You Use Disguises? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Clutchbone Oct 15, 2014 12:35:12	Here's how I think it works: To make a disguise, you roll d20 + Int + (Proficiency if trained in Disguise Kit) vs a DC that the DM sets. On success, you have a good disguise. On failure, you have a bad disguise. Maybe your fake eyebrows are crooked. You can then make a Deception check vs someone to convicingly pass off your disguise. Relevant Rules pg. 174 Typical Difficulty Classes Task Difficulty DC Very easy 5 Easy 10 Medium 15 Hard 20 Very hard 25 Nearly impossible 30 Pg 154 Disguise Kit. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to create a visual disguise. pg. 178 Other Intelligence Checks: Pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard. Deception. Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly... pass yourself off in a disguise.
#2 Timborama Oct 15, 2014 13:20:05	All to be answered on a DM-by-DM basis, as well as a case-by-case basis. I suspect they made this ambiguous on purpose, so PCs don't try to break things and that DMs have a final say on what makes sense for them and their table. That being said, it's case-by-case because it depends on the TYPE of disguise: Are you copying the outfit of a cult? If so and you don't have a disguise kit, how exactly are you going to disguise yourself? In this case, the DM might rule that you canNOT make a disguise check for the purpose you proposed with the tools at hand. Should you have a disguise kit (proficient or not), I would allow you to make a cultist disguise, and if you had to roll for it, you would only add proficiency bonus if you were proficient. Are you trying to be someone specific? This either auto-fails depending on the target, or, again, requires a disguise kit to even attempt it. Are you just trying to not look like yourself? I'd allow this even without a disguise kit, as you can use mud and tatter your own clothing to look like someone different. Now, the niggling details! #1: Depends on the DM to PC trust level, if the DM has you roll at all. He may ask your modifier and roll for you. I think this is fine and was how it was handled in 3.x to prevent meta-gameyness. But if you're proficient enough at disguises, depending on the disguise you might no even have to roll (see above) #2: Crappy disguises are crappy. If you rolled for your disguise (DM discretion) and a bandit takes more than a passing glance, they have a chance to see through the crappy outfit (or maybe this is where you make your first roll). They may not think you're actively trying to deceive, but they may approach you about it ("Hey! That helmet isn't uniform. Where'd you get that, grunt?") #3: You already failed your Deception check for the disguise. Why are you making more? Or are you just asking if you auto-fail trying to tell the guard more lies that may or may not be related to the costume? If that's the case, again, context is key, but if you present yourself as a liar, there's a good chance you won't be believed no matter WHAT you say or how high you roll...Because they can just choose not to believe you (depending on the situation). #4: See #3 #5: Sorta. You just can't allow yourself to "slip up." They have no reason to not believe you, due to the ability, until you GIVE them a reason. Say, by forgetting a key piece of information about your cover, or being caught in a lie, or someone catching you while changing or something. #6: Charlatan background benefit is weird, to me, because it basically says what you can already do with a disguise check. Maybe it just encourages you to make disguises more, and if you tell the DM what you're going to disguise yourself as, you won't have to roll for it (like #5, but again, depends on the scenario). #7: Depends on the exact context and interaction. Is the Rogue being frisked by bodyguards? Investigate. Is the Rogue being looked at by temple guards as he briskly walks past? Perception. Is the Rogue talking to a close friend of the person he's imitating? Insight ("Hey, Benny HATES coffee...") In summary: Ask your DM
#3 iserith Oct 15, 2014 13:51:52	Clutchbone wrote:
#4 FluffyBunbunKittens Oct 16, 2014 1:09:46	Disguise is certainly in a weird space. Making someone roll two times for the same task (roll disguise to wear the city guard uniform! but roll Deception the second you actually interact with anyone!) just means you want them to fail...
#5 AaronOfBarbaria Oct 16, 2014 4:47:10	I think that the rules could be a bit clearer on the topic of disguises, but I have elected to interpret them as follows: Intelligence (potentially benefiting from proficiency in a disguise kit) is used to make a costume - whether that is replicating the appearance of a guard uniform, making one person look like another specific individual, or simply making up a "not me" costume that doesn't look like any particular person but hides the identity of its wearer. That's the only check needed if simply looking the part is all that is in question, which is very often the case unless you are trying to impersonate a particular individual or infiltrate an organization that expects you to know certain things or behave in certain ways. Charisma (Deception) helping you "pull off" a disguise is only for the times when looking the part isn't quite enough - like when you are trying to impersonate a particular person and are interacting with someone that knows how that particular person should be acting and thus might suspect something is wrong. So the Intelligence (disguise kit) check determines whether you look like a guard or not, and the Charisma (deception) check determines whether you look like a guard that really did forget the password and should be let in anyways, or you look like a guard but obviously aren't one.
#6 MechaPilot Oct 16, 2014 18:43:52	Clutchbone wrote:
(Reply to #6) Timborama	MechaPilot wrote:
#8 Danny_Montanny Oct 17, 2014 6:59:47	I use the Disguise check as a DC to determine if someone notices (Perception) that the character looks off. If no one notices, then the disguise works. If they do notice, and want to question you about it, then you go to Deception vs Insight. The Charlatan and Assassin features aren't disguises, they're personas. Which is why they state that you can't create one of an already existing person. No one questions that you're Bob the Merchant, because you ARE Bob the Merchant. One of the best literary references I can think of is Herald Alberech of Valdemar. He would use his other personas to get information in the seedy parts of town to better protect his Queen. No one ever questioned it because the persona was built up over time and not a one time use disguise. It all depends on detail, too. Sure, you might look the part, but do you act the part? That would be a Performance check. If you can't mimic voices, then you're gonna have a rough time passing yourself off as someone particular.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Clutchbone

Oct 15, 2014 12:35:12

Here's how I think it works:

To make a disguise, you roll d20 + Int + (Proficiency if trained in Disguise Kit) vs a DC that the DM sets. On success, you have a good disguise. On failure, you have a bad disguise. Maybe your fake eyebrows are crooked.

You can then make a Deception check vs someone to convicingly pass off your disguise.

Relevant Rules

pg. 174

Typical Difficulty Classes

Task Difficulty DC

Very easy 5

Easy 10

Medium 15

Hard 20

Very hard 25

Nearly impossible 30

Pg 154

Disguise Kit. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to create a visual disguise.

pg. 178

Other Intelligence Checks: Pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard.

Deception. Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly... pass yourself off in a disguise.

Timborama

Oct 15, 2014 13:20:05

All to be answered on a DM-by-DM basis, as well as a case-by-case basis. I suspect they made this ambiguous on purpose, so PCs don't try to break things and that DMs have a final say on what makes sense for them and their table.

That being said, it's case-by-case because it depends on the TYPE of disguise:

Are you copying the outfit of a cult? If so and you don't have a disguise kit, how exactly are you going to disguise yourself? In this case, the DM might rule that you canNOT make a disguise check for the purpose you proposed with the tools at hand. Should you have a disguise kit (proficient or not), I would allow you to make a cultist disguise, and if you had to roll for it, you would only add proficiency bonus if you were proficient.

Are you trying to be someone specific? This either auto-fails depending on the target, or, again, requires a disguise kit to even attempt it.

Are you just trying to not look like yourself? I'd allow this even without a disguise kit, as you can use mud and tatter your own clothing to look like someone different.

Now, the niggling details!

#1: Depends on the DM to PC trust level, if the DM has you roll at all. He may ask your modifier and roll for you. I think this is fine and was how it was handled in 3.x to prevent meta-gameyness. But if you're proficient enough at disguises, depending on the disguise you might no even have to roll (see above)

#2: Crappy disguises are crappy. If you rolled for your disguise (DM discretion) and a bandit takes more than a passing glance, they have a chance to see through the crappy outfit (or maybe this is where you make your first roll). They may not think you're actively trying to deceive, but they may approach you about it ("Hey! That helmet isn't uniform. Where'd you get that, grunt?")

#3: You already failed your Deception check for the disguise. Why are you making more? Or are you just asking if you auto-fail trying to tell the guard more lies that may or may not be related to the costume? If that's the case, again, context is key, but if you present yourself as a liar, there's a good chance you won't be believed no matter WHAT you say or how high you roll...Because they can just choose not to believe you (depending on the situation).

#4: See #3

#5: Sorta. You just can't allow yourself to "slip up." They have no reason to not believe you, due to the ability, until you GIVE them a reason. Say, by forgetting a key piece of information about your cover, or being caught in a lie, or someone catching you while changing or something.

#6: Charlatan background benefit is weird, to me, because it basically says what you can already do with a disguise check. Maybe it just encourages you to make disguises more, and if you tell the DM what you're going to disguise yourself as, you won't have to roll for it (like #5, but again, depends on the scenario).

#7: Depends on the exact context and interaction. Is the Rogue being frisked by bodyguards? Investigate. Is the Rogue being looked at by temple guards as he briskly walks past? Perception. Is the Rogue talking to a close friend of the person he's imitating? Insight ("Hey, Benny HATES coffee...")

In summary: Ask your DM

iserith

Oct 15, 2014 13:51:52

Clutchbone wrote:

FluffyBunbunKittens

Oct 16, 2014 1:09:46

Disguise is certainly in a weird space. Making someone roll two times for the same task (roll disguise to wear the city guard uniform! but roll Deception the second you actually interact with anyone!) just means you want them to fail...

AaronOfBarbaria

Oct 16, 2014 4:47:10

I think that the rules could be a bit clearer on the topic of disguises, but I have elected to interpret them as follows:

Intelligence (potentially benefiting from proficiency in a disguise kit) is used to make a costume - whether that is replicating the appearance of a guard uniform, making one person look like another specific individual, or simply making up a "not me" costume that doesn't look like any particular person but hides the identity of its wearer.

That's the only check needed if simply looking the part is all that is in question, which is very often the case unless you are trying to impersonate a particular individual or infiltrate an organization that expects you to know certain things or behave in certain ways.

Charisma (Deception) helping you "pull off" a disguise is only for the times when looking the part isn't quite enough - like when you are trying to impersonate a particular person and are interacting with someone that knows how that particular person should be acting and thus might suspect something is wrong.

So the Intelligence (disguise kit) check determines whether you look like a guard or not, and the Charisma (deception) check determines whether you look like a guard that really did forget the password and should be let in anyways, or you look like a guard but obviously aren't one.

MechaPilot

Oct 16, 2014 18:43:52

Clutchbone wrote:

(Reply to #6)

Timborama

MechaPilot wrote:

Danny_Montanny

Oct 17, 2014 6:59:47

I use the Disguise check as a DC to determine if someone notices (Perception) that the character looks off. If no one notices, then the disguise works. If they do notice, and want to question you about it, then you go to Deception vs Insight.

The Charlatan and Assassin features aren't disguises, they're personas. Which is why they state that you can't create one of an already existing person. No one questions that you're Bob the Merchant, because you ARE Bob the Merchant. One of the best literary references I can think of is Herald Alberech of Valdemar. He would use his other personas to get information in the seedy parts of town to better protect his Queen. No one ever questioned it because the persona was built up over time and not a one time use disguise.

It all depends on detail, too. Sure, you might look the part, but do you act the part? That would be a Performance check. If you can't mimic voices, then you're gonna have a rough time passing yourself off as someone particular.