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| #1prestokeysNov 05, 2014 17:26:19 | Perhaps I haven't read enough yet. But suppose a monster is casting Ray of Frost. The damage depends on the spell-caster's level. So how do we get the level from the monster's stats? The number of dice for its hit points? But the die type is different for different monsters. Or do we use its challenge number? |
| #2NovacatNov 05, 2014 17:28:04 | Challenge is the closest equivalent to level that monsters have. |
| #3iserithNov 05, 2014 17:30:09 | A monster that can cast spells will typically have its caster level, spell attack bonus, and spell DC listed in its traits. |
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| #5iserithNov 05, 2014 17:53:24 |
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| (Reply to #6)Coredump00 |
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| #8El_CondoroNov 06, 2014 0:24:24 | The MM p. 10 has sections on Innate Spellcasting and Spellcasting.
The first says spells are cast at the lowest possible level and to use the CR for level, if one is needed.
The second is more along the lines of a typical PC spellcaster.
The free Basic Rules DMG (2) has the same thing on p. 5.
Not sure if this helps. Turning NPCs or monsters into spellcasters could be fairly abitrary, I guess. A goblin has a natural 10 for intelligence - perhaps he is a wizard because he has an 11 or 12? That would give him a DC 11 for spells and +3 on attacks? With 2d6 for hit points, perhaps he can cast 2 1st level spells, or he might be really good and have 3d6 for hit points and cast 1 2nd level spell, too. I haven't seen any RAW for this - just what I would do. |
| #9TimboramaNov 06, 2014 6:42:28 | You can also check out Surfrider's blog, as he has an entire blog section dedicated to Monsters with spells. But I'm pretty sure I directed you there once before in the past |
| #10SaelornNov 06, 2014 13:28:40 | As mentioned, use the CR for the monster to determine its effective caster level. It's the same way as they calculate Proficiency bonus. (This might trip up anyone who was used to 3E, where it would have been based on hit dice.)
Edit: As iserith mentions, NPCs who are actual spellcasters use their actual level for determining the effects of their cantrips and other spells. |
| #11iserithNov 06, 2014 13:03:45 | I had understood that challenge rating was only used for innate spellcasting creatures, not for creatures with the Spellcasting class feature.
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| #12Eric888Nov 06, 2014 13:55:31 | The short answer is: wait till the DMG comes out in a month. It will have the exact details on how to make an NPC monster with class levels.
Impatience requires a little reverse engineering and guesswork base on the Priest, Mage, Berserker, Assassin, Guard, and a couple others. Generally they are Level -3 as CR. They all use d8 hit dice, regardless of class, but low hit dice classes are usually given a lower con and vice versa. Stats are bought very ineficeintly with a lower pool of points (assuming standard human rules). Most of the class features are stripped. Mage and Priest do not have any domains or traditions, assassin does not have cunning action, berserker has reckless attack but not rage, etc.
I would say based on those, make the character as if you are really bad at making characters and then set the CR at level minus 3. Skip all class features except extra attack (at level 5), spellcasting, armor and weapon proficiencies, and if they are not spellcasters then maybe one class defining ability (sneak attack, reckless attack, etc.) Fighters have awesome proficiencies so they get nothing.
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