If you move away from a guy with a bow...Opp Attack?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

AH_Central_Command

Nov 06, 2014 23:12:12

I cant find what to do if you move away from someone using a ranged weapon.  Do they get to hit you as a improvised weapon?  Do they get to punch you?

 

Is anyone proficient in an Improvised Weapon attack?

 

Wakrob

 

#2

cowleymen

Nov 06, 2014 23:17:23

Going by older editions, ranged weapons dont give you an opportunity attack.This is a problem ive always had with ranged weapons in DnD. I would say yes. I dont understand why someone trained with ranged weapons cant attack effectivly with their traget right next to them. there is a reason why the term Point Blank exist. 

#3

Huntsman57

Nov 06, 2014 23:33:35

While that's not in the rules it is certainly reasonable. In my modern game I use it with firearms. If you move more than 5 feet out of cover it provokes an attack of opportunity from any enemy more than 5 feet from you, and who has LOS on you.

#4

Noon

Nov 07, 2014 2:06:07

Because drawing a bow that fast is kind of stupid - why can't you fire at that rate all the time if you're that fast? Modern firearms would make more sense in this regard.

 

I'd look at the rules and see if they prohibit the bow wielder kicking at a passing target.

#5

WizardV

Nov 07, 2014 3:43:14

RAW, Phb 195. AoO are strictly melee attacks. Your DM may allow an improvised weapon attack with the bow. Improvised weapon attacks are not well prescribed by RAW but I would allow this per my reading of Phb 147. I don't think there is a definitive answer to that question, just a lot of argument. Unless you have a free hand you can't make an unarmed melee attack. It's up to your DM whether a 2H bow only uses two hands when attacking or whether it always uses two hands while equipped. It's a subject somewhat debated on this forum. Keep in mind that unless you have a level of monk you use your strength for the hit and damage roll of unarmed strikes and improvised weapons. So, even if your DM allows an attack of either form it's likely to have a negligible effect on the combat.

#6

FallingIcicle

Nov 07, 2014 3:45:11

Opportunity attacks can't be ranged attacks. From p. 74 of the basic rules: "To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature."

#7

RPGBG

Nov 07, 2014 3:52:10

You can stab him with the arrow as an improvised attack or kick him in the butt as an unarmed one I guess...

#8

OoftaMeg

Nov 07, 2014 4:52:58
I'd say melee attack with the bow as an improvised weapon would work.
#9

mellored

Nov 07, 2014 5:19:52

Unarmed attacks are 1+Str damage.  And pretty much everyone has proficency in it.

 

Improvised attacks are 1d4+Str damage.  But you need to take tavern brawler to get proficency.

(Reply to #9)

Irithil

mellored wrote:
#11

mellored

Nov 07, 2014 7:04:53

Irithil wrote:
#12

Jay_Ibero_911

Nov 07, 2014 7:15:36

Irithil wrote:
#13

Timborama

Nov 07, 2014 7:19:28

Also consider giving an item which has existed in previous editions. Bows that can be used as if they were Quarterstaves (for Longbows) or Clubs (or Shortbows). Make it magic or not, make it a feat or not. But they'll be proficient with it, at least!

 

That said, the only other options are 1d4+STR but no proficiency, or 1+STR with proficiency (or a third option of a lenient DM!). I'm pretty cool with that being the standard, to be honest!

#14

alienux

Nov 07, 2014 7:34:19

Many monsters have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon in their possession. If you move away from an enemy who has a bow, what's to keep them from attacking you with that daggar or short sword they're carrying during the OA? Would most of you rule that they can't do that since they're holding the ranged weapon and, since it isn't their turn, they wouldn't get the incidental action of drawing the daggar for the OA?

(Reply to #14)

Timborama

alienux wrote:
#16

Illithidbix

Nov 07, 2014 11:07:12

I rather like this easy to miss bit of the equipment rules.

 

Ammunition.

You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack. At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.

 

If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see “Improvised Weapons” later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.

#17

paulstrait

Nov 07, 2014 15:06:15

All of this discussion ignores the reason that opportunity attacks are made with melee weapons.  It is assumed that when you are fighting with a melee weapon, you are attempting to make attacks and defend against attacks constantly (the number of attacks per round is somewhat of an abstraction that tells you how many of your blows potentially land).  The idea of an opportunity attack is that if someone doesn't withdraw carefully, but instead just turns around and retreats carelessly, they are no longer carefully parrying blows.  The situation is not analagous to ranged weapon attacks.  You aren't 'parrying' arrows with your sword.  There is no reason why you are *more* threatened by a ranged weapon when you are adjacent than you are when you are further away (in fact, generally speaking, the reverse is true).  So I don't really get where this desire is coming from except a misunderstanding of what the rules are trying to abstract.

(Reply to #17)

OoftaMeg

paulstrait wrote:
#19

paulstrait

Nov 07, 2014 18:17:35

OoftaMeg wrote:
#20

Huntsman57

Nov 07, 2014 18:51:41

While I'm not sure it makes quite as much sense with non firearms, I think that it's perfectly reasonable to state that if you end your movement outside of cover, enemies with ranged weapons that have LOS on you and are outside of 5 feet from you, may use their reaction to make an oppotunity attack on you.

#21

paulstrait

Nov 07, 2014 18:55:30

Huntsman57 wrote:
#22

Forgember

Nov 07, 2014 23:26:06

I took Tavern Brawler feat partly for this very reason, opens up a world of melee options for my Crossbow wielding Ranger, and with an 18lb Heavy Crossbow there is little concern of breaking anything but noses when I bash opponenets in the face with the solid oak butt stock. The feat also put me at an 18 Str so they're gonna feal it. (Switch hitter build, 18Str, 14Dex with Archery Style to balance out the attack bonus) Also hoping to have some fun grappling opponents my wolf trips

(Reply to #9)

Undrhil

mellored wrote:
#24

mellored

Nov 08, 2014 9:37:53

Undrhil wrote:
#25

OoftaMeg

Nov 08, 2014 9:39:43

Melee weapons always add your mod (strength or dex)

 

• For attacks with melee weapons, use your Strength
modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that
has the finesse property, such as a rapier, can use your
Dexterity modifier instead.

 

 

Assuming of course you think an unarmed attack qualifies as a melee weapon.

#26

Undrhil

Nov 08, 2014 11:56:08

"for attack and damage rolls."

#27

paulstrait

Nov 09, 2014 18:04:27

Undrhil wrote:
#28

jonathonhawke

Nov 09, 2014 18:04:20

Huntsman57 wrote:
#29

Clutchbone

Nov 10, 2014 11:40:47

Options:

1. If an orc is running by me (Opportunity Attack trigger), I try to smack him with crossbow butt (improvised weapon melee attack).

2. If an orc is running by me (Opportunity Attack trigger), I try to punch him (simple weapon melee attack).

 

I'm not sure if I'd allow reactions to load ammunition or draw a weapon, but that's my opinion.

 

 

OoftaMeg wrote:
#30

strider13x

Nov 10, 2014 12:26:47

I would think it all depends on the situation. There is no cut and dry answer because when role-playing situations so many variables exist. WHen did the target leave the Archers space? did they wait for the Archer to be in mid draw before taking off? How much space is around them, narrow tunel or open field?

 

Overall my point is that you have to clearly state your intent as a player and then trust the DM to judge the situation fairly to tell the best story possible.

(Reply to #29)

Timborama

Clutchbone wrote:
#32

paulstrait

Nov 10, 2014 14:58:38

Timborama wrote:
#33

Dooflegna

Nov 10, 2014 16:31:06

Illithidbix wrote: