Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kithas48 Dec 27, 2014 21:18:39	I understand that this may be just asking for a flame war but I hope we can have a good discussion. Currently my dm and I are in some contention as to what falls under int and what falls under wis. Personally I think that Wisdom would be the stat for things like survival and teamwork, logic, basic problem solving and perception.  Intelligence is the realm of knowledge, book smarts, math, history, dates and the like.   My dm however is more in the camp that wisdom has to do with survival instincts, riddles, and perception only. no problem solving at all. whereas int is the stat that contains all problem solving, logic and tactics.   this wouldnt be a big problem but in an attempt (and I respect this) to make sure dump stats arent free we aren't allowed to use advanced tactics, or advise our comrades unless we have the int to back that up.   The phb is less than helpful with this because it describes both stats with a lot of synonomous terms it is very hard to separate the two stats.   Here's the crux; what does it mean to be a high int and low wis character? and the opposite? -Thanks
#2 iserith Dec 27, 2014 21:40:08	According to the DMG, Intelligence is used for "memory and reason" (e.g. "recall a bit of lore, recognize a clue's significance, decode an encrypted message"). Wisdom is used for "perceptiveness and willpower" (e.g. "spot a hidden creature, sense someone that is lying").   If the DM is having "trouble deciding whether to call for an Intelligence or Wisdom check," he is advised to "think of it in terms of what a very high or low score in those two abilities might mean. A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence is aware of the surroundings but it bad at interpreting what things mean. The character might spot that one section of a wall is clean compared to the others, but he or she wouldn't necessarily make the deduction that a secret door is there.   "In contrast, a character with a high Intelligence and low Wisdom is probably oblivious but clever. The character might not spot the clean section of wall but, if asked about it, could immediately deduce why it's clean. "Wisdom checks allow characters to perceive what is around them (the wall is clean here), while Intelligence checks answer why things are that way (there's probably a secret door)."
#3 Castillo_de_Santiago Dec 28, 2014 12:35:19	Intelligence is deductive, Wisdom is inductive.   Deduction allows you to interpret a group of data and extrapolate an outcome. Induction allows you to interpret a set of circumstances and extrapolate an outcome. Mathmatics and engineering are deductive, psychology and sociology are inductive.    Deduction deals with facts, induction deals with impressions.   Perception doesn't really fall into either catagory, but it gets labled as induction because most people immediately begin to interpret data as soon as they become aware of it- they try to fit it into whatever matrix they are a part of, i.e., a person driving a car sees a police car parked on the side of the road and slows down or check their speedometer. Seeing the police car is the act of perception. Reacting to the police car is the deductive or inductive action interpretting the data.   In game settings, I will ask a player to make a perception check and if they succeed, I will ask them to tell me how they want the PC to react to what they see/hear/smell/sense, then ask them to make a secondary check under the most appropriate skill(s), and I try to give them more then one skill catagory to use.
#4 BRJN Dec 30, 2014 10:37:24	OP: iserith wrote:
#5 Melend Jan 06, 2015 22:42:18	Basic rule of thumb:  if you can accomplish a mental task, but can't explain or analyze how you did it, it falls under Wisdom.  If you can explain or analyze it, it's Intelligence.   Figuring out where north is, based on conscious observation of the sun's position in the sky and application of reasoning to known principles is INT.  Doing the same thing instantly without thinking about it is WIS - even if ultimately it must be because you're keeping track of where the sun is.  (I'm told that Australians living in the northern hemisphere, if asked where north is without thinking about it, tend to point south - because the elevation of the sun is reversed from what they're used to.)
#6 Yunru Jan 07, 2015 5:25:55	Don't use "advanced tactics" then. Use basic tactics. Because, y'know, all advanced tactics are merely compilations of basic tactics. "Flank them" (if deemed an "advanced tactic") becomes "get behind them", which is simply "go there". Likewise "advance in an AoE friendly manner" becomes "I'm going to be casting Fireball, watch out", which is again simple movement. So "Flank them in a AoE friendly manner" becomes "get behind them, watch out for my Fireballs." In short your DMs tactics will fail if stressed unless communication itself requires certain ability scores.
#7 Sorxores Jan 07, 2015 5:12:53	Here how you use each of the stats:   Strenght: crush a tomatoe Dexterity: accuratly throw the tomatoe Constitution: eat a rotten tomatoe without getting sick Intellect: Knowing that a tomatoe if a fruit Wisdom: Knowing you don't put tomatoe in a fruit salad Charisma: being able to sell the tomatoe fruit salad.   Then in the modern military and even some of the greatest military mind of our past (Churchill IIRC) say: If you cannot explain your plan to your dumbest soldier, then you got a bad plan. The simpler the plan is the better.
#8 Clutchbone Jan 07, 2015 9:05:19	Kithas48 wrote: