Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xirr2000 Dec 02, 2014 12:33:07	If I have disadvantage on Con abiltiy checks and then something forces me to make a Con saving throw, do I have disadvantage on this saving throw?  Basically is a saving throw a type of ability check?
#2 alienux Dec 02, 2014 19:11:55	xirr2000 wrote:
(Reply to #2) Macv12	alienux wrote:
#4 Stormborn20 Dec 02, 2014 15:31:10	xirr2000 wrote:
#5 Avross Dec 02, 2014 15:49:42	Somewhere in the rules they make a distinction that there are three types of d20 rolls, which do not overlap: Ability Checks Attack rolls Saving Throws
#6 Illithidbix Dec 02, 2014 15:52:32	No.   Pretty much any roll to try and do something is either an Ability Check (where skills and tools matter), Saving throw (where saving throw proficiency matters) or attack roll (which is always against AC).   All three are seperate and things that effect them are very clearly specified.   Things that effect Ability checks do not effect Saving Throws or Attack Rolls *unless* they specify this.   PHB and Basic Rules introduction wrote:
#7 PT_Rocks Dec 02, 2014 16:52:01	I had the same question but they are clearly different per the Basic Rules paragraph of How to Play:  "You use your ability scores and their modifiers to interact with the game world in three basic ways: ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. All three involve..."
#8 El_Condoro Dec 03, 2014 2:18:30	I would argue that a saving throw is a type of ability check.   Saving Throws appears in the section (of the PHB) on "Using Ability Scores" A saving throw is modified by the relevant ability score (Dex is used as the example on PHB179) and, as has been mentioned above, advantage and disadvantage (on a Con ability save, in this case) can be applied by the DM. I would rule that any effect that is giving disadvantage to Con checks will also affect Con saving throws due to these things (and my own logic).
(Reply to #8) Macv12	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #8) AaronOfBarbaria	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #10) El_Condoro	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #11) Ashrym	El_Condoro wrote:
#13 guachi Dec 03, 2014 15:16:07	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #8) Illithidbix	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #11) bonethug0108	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #14) bonethug0108	Illithidbix wrote:
#17 Daydreamer80 Dec 03, 2014 20:33:42	A saving throw is NOT an ability check.   However, i can see why its confusing, since all saving throws are of a type  that correponds to stats.   Con saves, dex saves etc.     A dm , might for reasons of common sense rule that something that gives you a disadvantage on dex checks, also does so for dex saves.   But it isnt specifically so on the raw.   Its easy to think of examples where a dex check might be lowered but not a dex save.   An injured foot might make you less able to stealth or do acrobatics, but not less quick per se, in terms of ducking a lighting bolt (dex save).   so u can flavor it to make sense either way.     Ability checks usually involve your skills, like stealth.   Which is your dex +prof bonus if its a skill you have.  -The key point, if you dont have prof in a skill, its basicaly just a stat ability check against the DC.   Saves are stat based and proficiency is determined pretty much by your class.  unless you have another source of prof like a feat.     Attack rolls are the third kind, and always made against an ac.   They can be str, dex, int, char, or wis based.  (int, char, wis in the case of spells for certain classes that target).    I am not aware of any attack rolls being con based.     The main point is this, just because a dex save, takes your dex stat bonus into account doesnt make it a dex check, anymore than an attack roll taking your strength bonus into account makes that a strength check.
(Reply to #11) AaronOfBarbaria	El_Condoro wrote:
(Reply to #15) El_Condoro	bonethug0108 wrote:
(Reply to #18) El_Condoro	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#21 bonethug0108 Dec 03, 2014 21:51:55	"I would argue that a saving throw is a type of ability check."   I quoted the other post to point out the title of the chapter. This is the point I was debating though(thought that would have been clear).
#22 El_Condoro Dec 03, 2014 21:58:58	I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread. I was just saying all of them are related - saving throws, ability checks and even attacks (Str, Dex) are "types" of ability check in that they are all related to and may be modified by the ability being used. They are clearly different from each other as described in the rules.
(Reply to #22) Daydreamer80	El_Condoro wrote:
#24 El_Condoro Dec 03, 2014 22:54:08	"A dex ability check boost of +2 would buff your initiative rolls or acrobatics check, but not your dex saving throw against a lighting bolt."   Why not? A Dex bonus is a Dex bonus - it is used for Dex-based skill checks and Dex saves. e.g. a character with a 16 Dex (+3) would get that +3 on their initiative, and their Dex-based skills (plus a possible prof bonus) and on their save vs. the lightning bolt.
(Reply to #24) Macv12	El_Condoro wrote:
#26 El_Condoro Dec 04, 2014 1:48:56	OK, thanks for the clarification.
(Reply to #24) Daydreamer80	El_Condoro wrote: