Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 reddaemon Aug 12, 2014 9:03:48	Hello.  I have this idea I have been thinking about with my Wizard.  I want to dip one level of a class that gets shield proficiency in order to bump my AC up a little bit.  I have the warcaster feat so casting spells won't be a problem.  What I am not so sure about though is whether or not a shield counts as armor in regards to the Mage Armor spell.  I was hoping to just use Mage Armor until I can afford to buy Half Plate to not waste any gold.   Mage Armor says it stops working when the target dons armor.  Shields are listed on the Armor table.  It is also listed in the table Donning and Doffing Armor where it says that donning/doffing a shield takes one action.  Does this mean that a shield is considered armor in this context?   In my opinion a shield doesn't count as armor, but I am curious to know what others think.  Would you rule that a shield counts as armor in regards to the Mage Armor spell?
#2 Pauper Aug 12, 2014 9:48:14	As you note, the table for 'Donning and Doffing Armor' (PH, p.146; BR, p.44)  includes the time to don and doff a shield, so I would say yes, donning a shield would end the mage armor spell.   -- Pauper
#3 Plaguescarred1 Aug 12, 2014 9:15:35	I agree with Pauper a shield count as a subset of armor, and is obtained through armor proficiencies. The fact it appears under Donning & Doffing Armors means it will interfere IMO.
#4 reddaemon Aug 12, 2014 9:53:16	Thanks for the responses.  I figured more people would lean toward a shield being considered armor.  I will refrain from trying this in organized play.  I'll just wait to multiclass until I can afford the Half plate.
#5 smbakeresq Aug 12, 2014 13:34:55	I would allow it on the theory that Barbarian gets an armor bonus if unarmored and the shield does not interfere with this.  Mage Armor I view as sort of a coating of force that surrounds you and is always active.  A shield you have to actually wield.    Now with your shield in one hand and your implement in the other, how do you get the material components out of your belt pouch?
(Reply to #5) Danny_Montanny	smbakeresq wrote:
(Reply to #5) Pauper	smbakeresq wrote:
(Reply to #7) Danny_Montanny	Pauper wrote:
(Reply to #5) Undrhil	smbakeresq wrote:
(Reply to #6) 2Chlorobutanal	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#11 JRutterbush Aug 12, 2014 21:20:09	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #11) 2Chlorobutanal	JRutterbush wrote:
(Reply to #12) Danny_Montanny	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #13) 2Chlorobutanal	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #12) JRutterbush	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#16 RCanine Aug 13, 2014 0:20:37	Plaguescarred wrote:
#17 Plaguescarred1 Aug 13, 2014 5:49:25	IMO Unarmed Defense use this wording because you don't wear a shield.
#18 tallric_kruush Aug 13, 2014 16:35:55	reddaemon wrote:
#19 Jvance420 Aug 13, 2014 20:16:41	Honestly, my original opinion was a shield was armor since it is included in the armor table. However, I looked in the basic rules and it states: "The Armor table collects the most commonly available types of armor found in the game and separates them into three categories: light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor. Many warriors supplement their armor with a shield."   I would say this makes a decent leg to stand on as RAW or RAI for it to not be included as armor, however I don't have the actual PHB yet so I reserve the right to be wrong.
#20 Plaguescarred1 Aug 14, 2014 5:07:49	tallric_kruush wrote:
#21 tallric_kruush Aug 14, 2014 6:54:11	Plaguescarred wrote:
#22 Saelorn Aug 14, 2014 13:58:58	Plaguescarred wrote:
#23 KarlB Aug 19, 2014 10:38:54	You guys are arguing semantics far beyond what even the designers intended.   In my mind, it's simple: You can use material components in the same hand as the somatic component. Foci can be used in place of a material component. Ergo, a foci can be used in the same hand as somatic movements.   A shield is not armor. Armor is worn. Shields are used and occupy a hand that could be for used another weapon or grappling. And as you mentioned Gandalf, do remember he spends a chunk of his time fighting with BOTH his staff and his sword. It's entirely conceivable he could use his staff to cast protective or enhancing spells while also attacking with his sword if he had bonus actions, or if his spell is a bonus action (don't ask me how that happens ... it's Gandalf. The man was already a living legend by the time the war broke out).   So yes, a shield could totally be used with Mage Armor as Mage Armor replaces worn armor and not equiped items.   By the way, carrying a weapon in your offhand, when you're playing something like an elven wizard who's proficient with a shortsword, is actually a really good idea for opportunity attacks! You will already have a high DEX, so using a finesse weapon gives you a pretty strong attack. Obviously, it's not ideal for a wizard to be thick in the fray, but at least any monster making a run for it won't run past the wizard easily. Plus, while not an ideal weapon, it does allow you to attack something in melee range if all you have left are ranged magic attacks.
#24 shivafang Aug 19, 2014 11:32:27	Saelorn wrote:
(Reply to #23) 2Chlorobutanal	KarlB wrote:
#26 mrpopstar Aug 19, 2014 17:25:23	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#27 Jvance420 Aug 19, 2014 18:20:27	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#28 RCanine Aug 19, 2014 23:14:42	Plaguescarred wrote:
#29 KarlB Aug 20, 2014 10:06:27	Regarding War Caster, remember that there are some spells that don't require material components or a focus. War Caster would allow someone to use a sword and shield and still cast those spells. Also, the ability to use a direct SPELL as a reaction rather than a weapon swing is really really strong. Like crazy strong. Especially when you consider that cantrips, at high levels, hit much harder than a single swing of a sword.   Regarding action economy, here's the thing: Interacting with an object is a free action if done ONCE per turn. You can drop a weapon to grab something from a material pouch, but you cannot then pick up that weapon in the same turn. And regarding free hand ... listen, the rules VERY clearly state you can use the somatic gestures with the same hand used by the material component, AND says you can use a focus item in lieu of a material component. That focus essentially becomes the material component. While you can argue semantics, it's perfectly logical to assume that you can use somatic movements with the hand holding the focus item. And if logic is not enough, just look at pretty much every single instance of literary or cinematic fiction: Wizards blast monsters by pointing their wand at them, not by pointing their wand and then wriggling the fingers of their other hand.   The whole affair of needing a free hand for material components and the object interaction action ecomony essentially acts as a limiter for Eldritch Knights. In my opinion, that subclass is specifically designed (barring War Caster for V,S only spells) for fighting with just a one handed weapon and leaving one hand free to cast spells. Well, actually, you *could* sheath a two handed sword and draw it again the next round for free, but you wouldn't be able to take advantage of War Magic and Improved War Magic if you assume you only get the bonus weapon attack *after* you use your action for casting the spell. Do you guys have an opinion on the latter? Would the spell have to precede the bonus action attack?