Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Nov 04, 2014 10:33:12	Question in regards to forced movement. Last week I had a battle on a Spelljammer ship that I was using for a skyship so it was not capabale of going into space. I puld out the olde deck template from 2E spelljammer.    Now I assumed assumed the ship had rails so forced movement could not bowl someone over the edge. However if you grappled someone near the edge and could move them 5' would it be reasonable to throw someone off the edge of a flying ship? Or think Darth Vader throwing the Emperor down the shaft in Return of the Jedi.    I do not think I would let the PCs use a push effect to knock someone over the rails but I would consider a grapple check. Thoughts?
#2 Saelorn Nov 04, 2014 13:46:15	Why wouldn't you let someone use a push effect? Because of the rails?   Trying to grapple someone over a railing, if it was a large enough obstacle to prevent a blast effect from pushing someone past it, would probably put disadvantage on the check.
#3 paulstrait Nov 04, 2014 14:21:11	Zardnaar wrote:
#4 OoftaMeg Nov 04, 2014 15:09:42	I would rule similar to paulstrait.  There should be no "invisible walls" but there should be a chance that a railing would stop forced movement (whether by grapple or a push).   Another way of looking at this is what is more fun dramatically?  A person gets hit with a blast of wind and gets a chance to stop themselves.  Even if they go over the edge they may still have a chance to grab hold, or even a chance to grab some part of the ship (anchor, etc) as they fall.   It's a pretty common tv/movie trope to have someone shoved over the edge only to have them hold on by their fingertips.   I would probably give one or more dex/strength saves to avoid going over the edge.  The grappled person grabs onto the railing as someone is about to throw them over, etc. Waist high rail - DC 5 Low rail - DC 10 Rough edge (plants, etc) - DC 15 Smooth edge DC 20 Particularly slippery edge DC 25   Like I said, I may give 2 saves.  First save, you don't go off the edge. Fail that you get a second save to hang on by your fingertips.
#5 Saelorn Nov 04, 2014 15:19:47	OoftaMeg wrote:
#6 Zardnaar Nov 04, 2014 19:33:52	paulstrait wrote:
#7 Drycanth Nov 04, 2014 20:11:40	if you are interested in spelljammer I suggest looking at this   http://www.spelljammer.org/
#8 Ahglock Nov 04, 2014 20:40:08	I love spelljammer. Sounds like a awesome fight. I kind of agree with not allowing push effects because I find when stuff like that is allowed it usually is either too hard to pull off or it's a bit too easy and the game devolves into a bunch of push attacks.
#9 Timborama Nov 05, 2014 6:27:32	Pushing someone I'd give them an extra save to hit or grab the rail and not fly off. Grapple I'd allow them to move the baddy, because you can "elevate" the creature within your reach, so you can essentially just move them "up" and then "over" by spending movement, then you let go... (even then I'd consider giving the falling dude the chance to grab the railing, too, but they're now grabbing it froma much worse position!)
#10 Zardnaar Nov 06, 2014 3:57:03	Even if I allowed the PCs to push people off the spelljammer ship the NPCs could just make grapple or shove checks with +10 athletics modifiers and do the same thing back. Ship railing is not a thin red line so I ruled it stopped push effects knocking people off the deck. A grapple roll and being thrown off though lifting someone over that railing s another matter though.    Note one of my adventures is over a lake of magma so this may ccome up again and then a push effect either way can become an instant death effect.
(Reply to #10) Timborama	Zardnaar wrote:
#12 Zardnaar Nov 06, 2014 12:27:28	Timborama wrote:
#13 Noon Nov 06, 2014 16:36:48	Ask your players before play how they'd want it handled.   It is a bit 'save or die' and they might be into that or not.   If not, perhaps there could be some magic item made available to them that reduces fall damage to a set amount (no matter the height), so with the magic item falling hurts a lot, but is not automatic death.
(Reply to #12) Timborama	Zardnaar wrote:
#15 Sword_of_Spirit Nov 10, 2014 16:57:30	paulstrait wrote:
#16 Zardnaar Nov 10, 2014 19:19:25	Ok guys actualy thinking of running a SJ game in the near future. Knowing these rules could matter.
#17 Sword_of_Spirit Nov 10, 2014 22:59:25	Sword_of_Spirit wrote:
#18 strider13x Nov 12, 2014 9:45:35	Falling is like any other Hazard. If it were lava it would be the same HP damage style hazard, right? Apply a damage amount and the Prone Condition if anyone begins a turn in that hazard space (say 10d6 for falling or 4d6 for lava). If you are damaged to 0 HP then you fall to your death/consumed by lava. If you still have HP left you didn't fall but are hanging on the ledge Prone/on you tiptoes next to a lava pit. As to the railing I would say it allows you to make a DEX Save to avoid the fall. Easy DC for a high rail, Moderate DC for a short rail.
#19 Ahrimon Nov 12, 2014 9:54:00	If I ever run spelljammer again I plan to drop the whole gravity plane in the center mass and just go with ship helms generate their own gravity on and around the ship.  I'm also going to get rid of the air bubble and just go with space is an atmosphere like in the movie treasure planet.  Less logistics and more action that way.