Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kahless Sep 28, 2015 5:55:43	So I didn't see it anywhere in the PHB, but are knowledge checks an action? Was playing an AL module and the DM made me spend an action to make a knowledge check on a creature we were fighting. I did decide to do it since we were having trouble (black pudding), so I don't think it was a waste, but I can't recall ever having a DM make me blow an action on knowing something.   Is that a DM call, or is there something in the rules about knowledge checks?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 28, 2015 7:40:50	The question is misformed. The questions to ask in 5th are "does this behaviour take an action?" and "does this action require a check?". Checks in and of themselves are not actions - they are ways of determining success or failure of an action.
#3 jaelis Sep 28, 2015 8:13:17	I'd agree with Tempest.   If you see an arcane symbol on a doorway, the DM might ask you to make a Knowledge check to see if you recognize it. Or you might just ask the DM if you recognize it. I wouldn't make you use an action for either of those things. If you don't immediately recognize it but say that you ponder it for a bit and try to figure out if it's related to anything you do know, I would say that requires an action. If you pull out your Advanded Magic and Applications textbook and study it to try to ascertain the symbol's properties, then I'd say that takes 5 or 10 minutes, and would likely still involve a check.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Sep 28, 2015 11:40:38	Kahless wrote:
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 28, 2015 14:20:49	Now that I'm at a full keyboard, I can elaborate.   You don't say "I'm making a Knowledge check to figure out what's up with that monster". You instead say "What do I know about the monster?". The DM then determines if this takes an action* or not, and then, if success is uncertain, he calls for a check. The check, in and of itself, isn't an action, nor is it something you can actively decide to do.   *Note that this isn't 3.5 or 4e: you only have an action. You don't "have a bonus action to spend" or somesuch - technically, you need a class feature that lets you take a bonus action to consider doing so. So the DM technically can't rule it takes a bonus action - only an action or no action. The DM can bend the rules, of course, and is totally justified in doing so, but the system itself doesn't allow for bonus actions.   Similarly, there isn't a "knowledge" check, nor is there even such a thing as an Arcana check - it's an Intelligence check. If the DM decides that a particular proficiency applies, and you're proficient with it, then you add your bonus. Otherwise, you don't.   In this case, Jaelis is right, IMHO: both "Do I recognize it?" and "What do I know about it?" are questions that shouldn't require an action. If the DM thinks that their answers are uncertain, he can call for a check (again, this isn't an action - checks resolve outcomes), but he'll have to use his own judgement to figure out which check (probably Intelligence), which proficiency (if any), and the DC. If the answer is instead certain, there's no need to call for a check at all - checks are used when the outcome is uncertain. So, if you definitely know what a black pudding is, you won't roll a check - you just know.   (Incidentally, this part of the answer tells you the first part as well: if a person who's worked with black pudding (no check needed to identify) and a person who's studied them but never seen them in the wild (check might be required) both see a black pudding, there might be some difference in their response time - but not a whole six seconds worth of time difference between them. Ergo, no action.)   Note that codified knowledge checks have always been a source of great comedy. In 4e, Bear Lore became a meme. In 3.5, there was a codified system where monsters with more HD were harder to identify.... which, contrariwise, meant that monsters with fewer HD were easier to identify, and the better you rolled over that minimum DC, the more stuff you remembered. Therefore, any commoner following these rules could instantly tell you the exact vital statistics and breeding range of a random butterfly species, but would be very hard-pressed to even recognize a red dragon. I think this is a good enough reason to resort to DM calls (including the option for a check, set up on the fly, if desired) in 5e.
#6 eyrieking Sep 28, 2015 21:29:04	I usually make it take an action if they are examing something to see if they have heard of it; say a cleric looking at an obscure religious symbol. If they are trying to figure out how something works, that also takes an action. Recalling what you know about something shouldn't take an action, in general.
#7 Kahless Sep 29, 2015 5:11:01	Thanks for the input. That's along the lines that I thought. Even in Pathfinder, with the codified knowledge system, I've not come across a DM that required actions for monster knowledge.   Part of it was I as a player recognized the description the DM gave as black pudding. This was the first time my character had come across it (at least in an adventure, and it wouldn't be fair to use player knowledge to assume he had seen one 'off camera'). I as a player just wasn't recalling how to defeat them. I remembered that in previous editions they split in two when hit, but wanted to know how to possibly avoid that or if anything would hurt them more.
#8 iserith Sep 29, 2015 7:56:33	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#9 jaelis Sep 29, 2015 8:23:29	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #9) AaronOfBarbaria	jaelis wrote:
#11 iserith Sep 29, 2015 9:39:53	jaelis wrote:
#12 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 29, 2015 9:58:15	iserith wrote:
#13 iserith Sep 29, 2015 10:03:55	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#14 Varden_Khol Sep 29, 2015 13:08:32	iserith wrote:
#15 DM_Rober Oct 07, 2015 18:13:29	In the PHB a there is nothing about that a knowledge skill check there be an action. Tell to your DM that use the common sense. A knowledge ability check in this case, is based in your knowledge. It's easy, if you know or dont't know something is immediately, don't requires any effort by you.    The DM may requires to you at the start of the ecounter (AS NO ACTION) an ability knowledge check for advice wich creature is the enemy.    I use a this house rule made by own:   TABLE KNOWLEDGE MONSTERS Type                                Check Aberrations                    Nature Beasts                             Nature Celestials                       Religion Constructs                      Arcana Dragons                          Arcana Elementals                     Arcana Fey                                  Nature Fiends                            Religion Giants                             Nature Humanoids                    Nature Monstrosities                 Arcane Oozes                             Nature Plants                             Nature Undead                          Religion       DC 15 + ½ Challenge of the enemy (minimum 1), for get some information about the creature.   - If the check fails for 5 or less, you only know the type and name of the creature.   - If you succeed the check, you know some information of the creature, and for each point above DC you know some extra information (DM choose which kind of information reveals, such a vulnerability, resistance, immunity, etc…)
#16 Rya.Reisender ago	Completely context dependent. If the player just wants me to tell him what his character already knows anyway, then that doesn't require an action because the PC doesn't even need to "think" he KNOWS it. If it's something the PC heard years ago and he tries to recall that... I might rule that it takes an action because it probably takes 6 seconds to remember that properly.