Interesting situation came up last game, seeking input on a spot ruling. The details are just because it was an awesome scene!
Fighting on a log that serves as a bridge, twenty feet above a slow moving but deep river... The war cleric shoves a berserker enemy over the ledge, but the enemy succeeds on a dex check to catch himself. The fight has generally been going poorly for the party. She needs to finish crossing the bridge to the enemy side on her next turn and start healing, or people will probably die. She hollers at the wizard, who is still on the safe side of the bridge, to deal with the berserker. The zerk has barely been hurt, and will turn the tide of battle back in the enemies' favor if he scrambles back up.
The wizard casts Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and the zerk fails his save, drops into the water below. I figure the rules for suffocating (p.183 PHB) apply here, but the zerk can't really hold his breath. I treated each round underwater as 'damage' for the purpose of breaking out of THL, so he's got three rounds and 6 saves total, 3 with advantage. He miraculously fails all six times and dies.
Would you have ruled differently? In hindsight, laughing underwater ought to have drowned him on the first round and been an insta-kill -- fair reward for a well timed spell. On the other hand, I'd rather not incentivize the tactic for everytime they fight near a body of water.
Being incapacitated and prone in the water could mean he's just floating on the surface laughing his ass off. So I'd have probably just had the current take him away as he makes normal saves without advantage. If and when he gets back into the action, he'd have to tell the PCs, "That wasn't funny."
I would have given inspiration to the wizard for actually pulling that off and finding a way to force a creature to drown. I would have skipped the suffocating rules and just had the zerk die because by the essence of Tasha's, he's not holding his breath at all and in fact probably breathing in large amounts of water. I would have given him the chance to swim of course, but by your description the zerk failed. So yeah, insta gib and a pat on the back of the wizard.
Well, strictly by the rules, an incapacitated creature can't take an action or reaction. They can still move. Tasha's says they fall prone and can't stand but they can still crawl.
So nothing says that the berserker would have automatically drowned. Floating/swimming (prone) in the river but not drowning.
You could have also ruled that as the berserker was floating down river, barely keeping his head above water "I HA HA HA will HO HO HO kill HA HA HA you HO HO HO for HA HA HA this HA HA HA!" with maybe some athletics checks thrown in because he's effectively in treacherous water.
The real question is, was it fun? Did the group cheer the wizard? Then you made the right call.
I can see it both ways. He can still crawl, and thus swim. But he's laugning, and thus inhailing watter.
So granting him saves for "damage" for the mouth full of water he inhaled seems like a pretty good call, but he would still be on the surface.
mellored wrote:
Nevvur wrote:
You go and try to laugh while underwater and let us know how long you last before you die.
Wait ... don't actually do that. :P
Laughing and losing air inside lungs/not being able to hold breath... check
Rapid inhaling of water due to being in a moving body of water and laughing uncontrollably.. check
Water in lungs blocking new oxygen from entering bloodstream.. check
Flailing about wasting energy (oxygen currently in bloodstream) without replenishment.. check
You would most likekly lose consciousness within a very short amount of time because of the water entering the lungs while doing a strenuous activity (trying to swim). I say this because normally it takes about 2 minutes for the average person to lose consciousness due either to your larynx constricting and stopping more water from entering the lungs but also stopping you from breathing or water flooding them. Once that happens, you're dead. And if its salt water, it instead pulls water from your bloodstream into your lungs via osmosis. Oh and lets not forget that you could also just die from cardiac arrest before you ever actually drown due to the water affecting your red blood cells (destroying them) and the increase/decrease of certain chemicals. All in all it's not a great way to go.
Like I said earlier, I'd just call the zerk dead and move on :p
I dont like save or die spells even in specific circumstances. If you allow it once players will try it again. If the circumstance can be easily set up its best to avoid save or die effects. If however the circumstances can't easily be emulated again then I'd say go for it.
FrogReaver wrote:
Yeah, this is what I meant about not wanting to incentivize the tactic. The discussion led me to research drowning a little. Noctaem's description was accurate, though the source I consulted said unconsciousness usually follows in 20-60 seconds once water hits the lungs - thus in the first round submerged, if you're laughing - and causes the larynx to constrict. But without aid, you're pretty much a goner at that point anyway.
Interestingly, I recall reading another enchantment spell that automatically fails (or ends early) if the target is (or becomes) physically unable to perform the action. Wish I could remember which spell it was, but the same logic could apply. With a sealed larynx, laughter is impossible, thereby ending the spell.
Sure would be an unpleasant way to die...
You can still tread water while incapacitated...
(cool story though!)
Timborama wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Incapacitated
• An incapacitated creature can’t take actions or
reactions.
(that's it).
Stunned
• A stunned creature is incapacitated (see the
condition), can’t move, and can speak only
falteringly.
• The creature automatically fails Strength
and Dexterity saving throws.
• Attack rolls against the creature have
advantage.
Prone
• A prone creature’s only movement option is to crawl,
unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
• The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
• An attack roll against the creature has advantage
if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
Tasha's is incapacitated, prone, and unable to stand.
Thanks Mello 
Note to self: Bring PHB to work.
Noctaem wrote:
mellored wrote:
Or we're interpreting that "treading water" and/or "staying afloat" isn't moving at all...
Or the DM, as you said, simply adjudicates that a creature can "crawl" while "prone" in the water. A DM might even say that a person can't actually be prone in the water, which isn't unreasonable, but I would personally rule they have the prone condition but with certain differences due to being in the water and not on the ground (so yes, they'd doggy-paddle, basically, at the cost of extra movement and possibly Skill checks)
Technically you are prone when swimming along the surface of the water.. you're horizontal, lying flat on the surface of the water while swimming. You might be in a vertical "upright" position while treading water though. Seems "crawling along the surface of the water while prone" isn't an inaccurate description of swimming. You certainly never do stand up...
Timborama wrote:
What kind of armor was the berzerker wearing? If made of metal, the Wizard got a 1-hit KO. Memorable moment.
But if the heroes tell the world about it, some magic-user is going to hear and be inspired to create an area burst Tasha's Hideous Laughter, just to see if they can one-up the PCs.
I got to watch as a 4e Warden1 hit the tough plate mail guy who was supposed to thrash Team Hero, pushed him 2 squares off a bridge sideways, failed saving throw to grab edge, fell into 10 foot deep water. Bloop. Not knowing that was a Daily, the DM decided the chain mail guy was going to pull out his bow-and-arrows instead...
iserith wrote:
Sorxores wrote:
I think that if the players created a trap as described by Sorxores with the log, I wouldn't shut it down by having the monsters follow the player(s) step for step. If the opponents have no way to know ahead of time that the bridge is an illusion and they fail whatever check or DC required to spot the illusion, well it'll work in my book. I don't personally know many DM's who would shut that kind of creative thinking down.
Yeah, at the very least you get the first 1, certainly (maybe save to grab, since it's only one-half the bridge, it's not like he's walking into a 100% illusioned bridge!). If there's a bunch and they're blood-hungry, I'd even say you get a few!
But after that, their buddies behind them see what's going on and have to inspect the bridge before crossing it safely. Or their buddies falling may count as "seeing through the illusion" so they wouldn't be slowed down as much as the former.
Depends on the situation for me to truly make a ruling (like most DMs!) but I'd say if there's more than 6 bad guys, 2-3 fall in (with possible saves to not totally fall in, but the cluster may be bad news!) and the rest stop at the bridge, buying the PCs more time before one of the orcs gets the bright idea to poke and both "sides" of the bridge with a stick...But I will not have all 12 of them plummet to their doom like lemmings 
IMO: minor illusions disapates once touched. So it will get 1 guy.
I give more leway for higher level slots, but only 1 enemy mistake per cantrip.
mellored wrote:
BRJN wrote: